Rear Shock Question

Got questions? We got answers....
User avatar
m0rie
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 2220
Joined: 10:25 pm Nov 29 2004
Country:
Location: Crescent City, CA

Rear Shock Question

Post by m0rie »

Does anybody know if the rear shocks from a H series KDX interchange with a E series KDX? Circumstantial evidence says yes, but i'm not 100%. According to Race Tech they use the same Gold Valve setup and internal service parts (bumper, bladder, etc) but the kawasaki parts diagrams have a different part number for the shocks. I think thats only because of the spring rate being different though. The only difference that I can tell is the E series shock reservoir is angled downward and the H series reservoir is angled upward. Other than that they look identical. Any thoughts?

-Maurice
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

Besides just see if it fits, something to look at would be clevis width, bolt hole diameter and length between the two mounting holes.

May I ask why you would consider such a swap?
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
m0rie
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 2220
Joined: 10:25 pm Nov 29 2004
Country:
Location: Crescent City, CA

Post by m0rie »

Simple, transfering upgrades between bikes. I've got several upgrades that i'd like to do to my 89 (suspension, carb, df3, etc) but i'd also like to get a newer (95+) KDX one of these days. It seems silly to me with that in mind to put money into upgrades that I can't carry forward to a new KDX. Especially since you get next to nothing for upgrades on a used bike when its time to sell. So far reworking the valving on the shock is the only thing that i'm not sure I can switch to a new bike. If the shocks interchange then i'm set.

-Maurice
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

I understand your concerns. I may get a '95 or newer model myself, someday.

Do you already have your current shock's valving different than stock?
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
m0rie
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 2220
Joined: 10:25 pm Nov 29 2004
Country:
Location: Crescent City, CA

Post by m0rie »

No its still the stock valving. I'm going to tear it down and service everything and depending on what I find out about the interchangability i'll consider putting in gold valves.

-Maurice
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

Have you considered just changing the shim stack?
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
m0rie
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 2220
Joined: 10:25 pm Nov 29 2004
Country:
Location: Crescent City, CA

Post by m0rie »

For some reason I was thinking that you couldn't change the shim stack on these shocks?

-Maurice
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

I have not got around to disassembling my '94 shock yet, but I have disassembled three 1987 shocks, plus a 1984 KX125 shock. All four of those had stacks of individual shims, so I would assume that 1989 and newer shocks would be the same way. It seems that even if one were to buy the RT Gold Valve kit, the recommended valving may not be spot on for a particular application. I think it is about $150 for the Gold Valve kit. I am somewhat of a cheapskate / try fix it myself first, kind of guy, so I would lean toward buying some shims from MX Tech at $.89 each and tinkering with it.

The picture in the manual seems to show a single stage stack, and I would like to try a dual stage stack. I am not sure what the recommended stacks are when you get a Gold Valve kit. The previous owner of my bike said it has Gold Valves front and rear, but I haven't disassembled the shock or forks that far, so I haven't seen them. I am curious to see what shims and stack(s) are in there.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

m0rie, since my last post, I have gained a little more shock experience. wsjkawasaki and I changed his 1997 KDX220 shock oil a few days ago, and I took apart my 1994 shock yesterday morning. The internal parts are very similar. The problem with the shock upgrade, whether changing the stock valving stack(s) or swapping in a Gold Valve piston and those shim stacks, is that it is a lot harder to transfer it to a different bike. It is a lot harder to fool with a shock than a DF3. :lol:

My '94 shock turned out to have a Race Tech Gold Valve and valving, so I can not make a comparison between stock E valving and 1995 and newer valving. The 995 and newer did look to be easily changeable, though. Well, not easy, but you know what I mean. :grin:
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
fuzzy
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 3437
Joined: 01:29 pm Jun 18 2003
Country:
Location: Fredneck, MD

Post by fuzzy »

Racetech lists the same valve for both shocks...If that helps...
'91 KDX 200 Project $300 KDX
'95 KDX 200 Project $600 KDX
'94 WR 250 Always a project
User avatar
m0rie
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 2220
Joined: 10:25 pm Nov 29 2004
Country:
Location: Crescent City, CA

Post by m0rie »

Jason - Since you had both of them does it look like the 99 shock would physically fit on your 94? Or the 94 on the 99?

-Maurice
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

I was two hours from home when I was working on the '97 shock, so I didn't have them side by side for comparison. The E shock may have the reservoir pointing down to clear the frame. I can't say for sure that they would swap. The '97 shock was already off the bike, so I didn't see how the reservoir cleared the frame.

Sorry, but I can't say for sure.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
m0rie
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 2220
Joined: 10:25 pm Nov 29 2004
Country:
Location: Crescent City, CA

Post by m0rie »

The E shock reservoir points down to clear the pipe, the H shock reservoir points up to clear the pipe. But it looks like there is almost 2" between the E shock reservoir and the pipe...

Maybe somebody with a 95+ bike and a digital camera could take a picture of the shock area of the bike with a tape measure held next to it for scale?

-Maurice
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

m0rie, are you wanting to do work on your E shock, then swap it into a future '95 and up KDX?

Don't forget that swingarm, linkage and mounting point locations might be different between the two, causing the linkage curve "rising rate" to be different.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

http://kdx.woodsrider.net/gallery/a-few ... 799?full=1

It doesn't look like a '95 and up shock would work in an E model. Check out how close it is to the exhaust pipe stinger:

http://kdx.woodsrider.net/gallery/fewpi ... 800?full=1

My '94 is stripped to the frame with the shock apart, so I am no help on pictures.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
m0rie
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 2220
Joined: 10:25 pm Nov 29 2004
Country:
Location: Crescent City, CA

Post by m0rie »

Jason - At this point i'm just trying to compile a list of upgrades (parts that swap and aftermarket upgrades) that will swap between the E and H bikes. Once its semi complete i'll post it up here on the forum.

-Maurice
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
User avatar
m0rie
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 2220
Joined: 10:25 pm Nov 29 2004
Country:
Location: Crescent City, CA

Post by m0rie »

Thanks Jason, I missed those two pictures when I went thru the gallery earlier...
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

OK, no problem.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

Here is something I thought of that may make a difference. If you look on the Race Tech site for the spring rate calculator, it shows that the stock E spring is 4.6 Kg/mm, and it is for a 175 pound person. It shows the stock '95 and newer spring as 5.0 Kg/mm, and it is for a 180 pound person. That makes me think there must be some difference in the linkage ratio. I know that a Honda XR250 or 400 (one of those), uses a 10 or 11 Kg/mm spring. The KTM's are in the 7 - 9 range, I think.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
m0rie
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 2220
Joined: 10:25 pm Nov 29 2004
Country:
Location: Crescent City, CA

Post by m0rie »

Jason wrote:Here is something I thought of that may make a difference. If you look on the Race Tech site for the spring rate calculator, it shows that the stock E spring is 4.6 Kg/mm, and it is for a 175 pound person. It shows the stock '95 and newer spring as 5.0 Kg/mm, and it is for a 180 pound person. That makes me think there must be some difference in the linkage ratio. I know that a Honda XR250 or 400 (one of those), uses a 10 or 11 Kg/mm spring. The KTM's are in the 7 - 9 range, I think.
The rear spring rate changes are recent on the Race Tech site. They used to list the 4.6 on the 89 as a 140ish? spring and the 5.0 on the H as a 200lbs spring. A 4.8 was right in the middle for both @ around 170-180.

I've got a XR400 spring in the garage...its something silly like 9.3 :shock:

-Maurice
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
Post Reply