Stock vs. DEL needle

Woods Rider · Post by **Woods Rider** » 09:23 am Jan 01 2007

I have an '02 KDX220 that is completely stock. I am adding a Gnarly Woods pipe and VForceIII reeds this week.

I have read lots of the posts about the different needles. . . But I can't quite figure out the difference between the B stock taper and the C and D tapers. It sounds like the C taper results in a big MX style hit in the power delivery, while the D is a bit smoother???

I want the power delivery to be super smooth with no hit, BUT I want LOTS of low end grunt, which I currently do not have enough of. . .

Any thoughts??

Post by **Indawoods** » 10:22 am Jan 01 2007

DEL is the way to go then. Very smooth....

AZRickD · Post by **AZRickD** » 10:26 am Jan 01 2007

RB carb and head squish mod, there, young fella.

Rick

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 12:02 pm Jan 01 2007

Change four things at the same time..and if there is some tuning to be done afterward...you will have no clue what's going on. And neither will anyone else.

There is more to needles than just the taper º, but considering the profiles most often used by KDXRIDER riders, your description covers the tapers OK.

Re: '..with no hit'

XRs I think are good for that!

If it's hit that you don't want you may be happier with your OEM B slope than either of the others...or a BEM maybe? I haven't done much with B needles. Enough to know I don't want one..but you're looking for something different.

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 05:22 pm Jan 02 2007

I hate beating dead horses BUT.......
I purchased a DEL jet needle today and have 2 questions.
My OEM needle Part #R1174K and I see some comments on
the (L) OE needle on some of the threads.
Should I have purchased a DEK or is that just for R&B mods ?
Second question if I am understanding this correctly the diameter
of the OE jet (K) is smaller than the (L) thus the DEL needle is
going to create a leaner condition, I think ??

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 05:25 pm Jan 02 2007

The DEL (leaner than DEK) fits with the #5 stock slide (richer than the #7 that comes with the carb mod) With a stock carby you'll want the DEL instead of the DEK.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 05:46 pm Jan 02 2007

Re: 'and I see some comments on the (L) OE needle on some of the threads.'

You mean the 1174L needle, right? That would be an Original Equipment needle.

But then this: 'if I am understanding this correctly the diameter
of the OE jet (K) is smaller than the (L) thus the DEL needle is
going to create a leaner condition, I think ??'

..makes me think you are talking about DEK/DEL needles?

But...you said '..OE jet..' and smaller IS leaner in jets. Smaller is RICHER in needles.

I don't understand.

With the Keihin numbering system, the third letter is the diameter...and the diameters go UP with the letters.

So...given a DEK/DEL...a 'K' needle is SMALLER than an 'L' needle.

K=2.695mm
L=2.705mm

Unless 'L' comes before 'K' in your alphybet, yes. The 'L' is more lean than is the 'K'.

Jets are holes. The bigger the hole, the more flow can be flowed.

Needles are obstructions that plug up holes, thus the bigger the obstruction, the less moh can be flowed.

Now...you may think all this is insanely silly...but I remember spending weeks trying to help a guy adjust his air screw only to find out that HIS 'air screw' was black (he thought....incorrectly).

I can assume a couple of things and ask no questions. We will think completely different things...and both of us think that something is understood in the process.

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 06:07 pm Jan 02 2007

You mean the 1174L needle, right?

Yes however my OE needle is a 1174K.

of the OE jet (K) is smaller than the (L) thus the DEL needle is

Yea I screwed up ! Should have said OE jet needle just
like you should have spelled "Alphabet" correctly

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 07:33 pm Jan 02 2007

I spelt it that way on porpoise.

...spealt porpoise on purpose, too........

The last designator on the proprietary needles from Kaw (as in the 'K' in R1174K) is not a diameter indicator.

So...

...you are inquiring as to 'K' and 'L' in the Kaw numbering scheme? They are L1 numbers:

K=42.20mm
L=43.55mm

The longer the L1, the more lean the needle (other things the same..slope and clip position). On clip-3, an 'R1174L' is more lean than is an 'R1174K'.

I have repeated this a few times...but although L1 is generally referred to the length of the straight section of the needle, it is NOT that.

It IS the distance from the clip end to the place on the needle where the diameter is 2.515mm. That is sometimes referred to as the 'magic' number.

You are familiar with CDave's needle decoder?

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 11:00 pm Jan 02 2007

You are familiar with CDave's needle decoder?

Nope can't find it on search.
A search lead me to justkdx but cannot find it

Post by **Mr. Wibbens** » 11:40 pm Jan 02 2007

`Try a Google search "canadian daves needle decoder"

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 11:17 am Jan 03 2007

http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/jetneedles.html

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 11:56 am Jan 03 2007

Thanks....
I did the google search lat night and it took me to the site but
nothing else.
I did a user name and all now I can get it.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 01:33 pm Jan 03 2007

Sorry. I should have just put the link in in the first place. About the time I don't say the same thing the 50th time is about the time I should have.

So...his needle decoder makes good sense, 'ya? Print it out. Put it in your manual!

Post by **Indawoods** » 01:47 pm Jan 03 2007

Pretty useless to me....

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 11:08 pm Jan 03 2007

It shows my OE needle R1174K which would be a BFQ is not made.
It also shows that the DEL I put in the carb will run leaner at
1/4 throttle and richer at 3/4 due to the taper increase.
The straight section may richen the 1/8-1/4 pilot circuit but
the leaner condition from the taper should offset.
This certantly brings a better understanding how to properly
jet a carb.
Plus the L1 is shorter richening the the 1/8-3/4 throttle
Lots to consider when choosing a needle.

KDXRIDER.NET

KDXRIDER.NET

Stock vs. DEL needle

Stock vs. DEL needle

Beatin a dead horse