wheel bearings

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wheel bearings

Postby scheckaet » 01:15 pm Dec 20 2006

I believe they're shot. Last week end I noticed a bit of "play" on the rear wheel :sad: . When I move the wheel back and forth from the side there is about 2-3 mm of play. I don't see any play going up and down though :?
I took the wheel out and check the bearings, they look fine (I know doesn't mean they are) but I can't seem to see any play on the bearings by moving or turning 'em by hand.
I put the axel on the wheel again and same thing :mad:
It looks like it only happens when the wheel is on the bike ...
Am I going crazy (please don't answer that I already know the answer :rolleyes: ) or is there something I missed?

I cleaned all the grease and check the inside and I noticed the tube inside the hub (between the bearings) CAN move. Is it supposed to be like that?

If it is the bearing, I doubt I'll be able to order and receive the parts before the xmas break but I have some time off and REALLY WANT to ride during the break (it's more like I NEED to ride in order to keep what remains of my sanity) .
Am I going to destroy something major, or kill myself ?

thanks y'all

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Postby 2001kdx » 02:31 pm Dec 20 2006

I just did rear wheel bearing replacements last week, because i saw play in the rear wheel, also because i felt it when accelerating/decelerating. When i took them off, one of the bearings had the inner ring moving around. I went to my local kawi dealer, and got a set for 20$. I can only assume you should'nt ride it in this state, but i don't know the consequences.
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Postby Indawoods » 02:36 pm Dec 20 2006

By the time there is play... they are shot. Replace them ASAP.
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Postby scheckaet » 03:17 pm Dec 20 2006

my local kawi dealer, and got a set for 20$

Damned! the one I found are 20 a piece. :mad:
Any tricks I should know about to remove the seal and bearings?
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Postby kdxquebec » 04:18 pm Dec 20 2006

>|<>QBB<
scheckaet wrote:
Any tricks I should know about to remove the seal and bearings?


A trick...Humm Remove the circlip before hammering!! An other good trick is to study the part diagram of the rear hub at http://www.buykawasaki.com.

Also go shop at a local bearing shop. They always have them in stock! 10-15$ a piece is normal for a GOOD quality. Do not install the 2$ ones...$ they last 3 rides in the rocky stuff :wink: belive me :shock:

Good luck this is a 45 minute job.
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Re: wheel bearings

Postby IdahoCharley » 05:39 pm Dec 20 2006

>|<>QBB<
scheckaet wrote:I cleaned all the grease and check the inside and I noticed the tube inside the hub (between the bearings) CAN move. Is it supposed to be like that?


Wilf

The tube inside the hub between the bearings is a spacer piece. While it can move up and down when the axle is out it should fit tight between the bearings and to get it to move up or down should take a little force when you first attempt to move it.

If it is flopping around inside the hub one of the bearings is not fully seated. The purpose of the spacer tube is to hold the bearings in their designed bearing wells and allow the axle to be fully tightened - without side loading the bearings or crushing the hub. The spacer should fit tight and rides against the inner support ring area of each bearing.

If your experience any significant side to side movement of the wheel something is out of wack. I'am assuming the "side to side movement" is a rocking type movement where as you grab the front and back of the wheel and are able to rock it side to side VERSES grabbing the front and rear of the wheel and sliding it back and forth - which would indicate something else. (Burr on axle thread, missing or wrong outer bearing wheel spacer, etc)

Kdxqubec - has the solution for you - these bearings are readily available at almost any NAPA store or bearing house.
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Postby canyncarvr » 06:31 pm Dec 20 2006

CBR has a lifetime warranty on the (Koyos I believe..maybe NSK) bearings they sell. No, they don't last a lifetime, but replacement is free when they DO wear out. He sells a kit WITH seals (external grease seals). Not cheap. Something like $45-50??

http://www.cbrbearing.com/

CBR wrote:Just call the toll-free order and tech line, tell us what machine you have and what bearings you need. You'll get fast, friendly, technical assistance and your order will be processed immediately!


It's true. They're good people.

And their bearings last many times longer than the junk chinese bearings you get for $5.

You probably won't kill yourself or blow up something if you ride with them iffy. Probably means you MIGHT well do exactly that.

About the time you have to replace that hub 'cuz the bearing completely lets loose is about the time you're going to wish you had put in SOME kind'a bearing to take up space until you got some REAL bearings.



Here's something fun to consider. When you GET those new bearings (if you dont' get 'em from CBR), take the seals out, clean out all the crap grease in them, REgrease them with a good waterproof grease.

If you don't know HOW to take the seals off a new bearing with NO damage, ask.

Nevermind..do it like this: Stick a mechanics scribe between the seal and the inner race BETWEEN two balls (you can feel that). Lever the edge out. Remove the rest of it with a circular movement like the rod movement when changing a tire on a tire machine.

It snicks right back in with a bit of pressing with your finners.

If you bend it up..you did something wrong. :shock:

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Postby IdahoCharley » 09:16 pm Dec 20 2006

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canyncarvr wrote:If you don't know HOW to take the seals off a new bearing with NO damage, ask.

Nevermind..do it like this: Stick a mechanics scribe between the seal and the inner race BETWEEN two balls (you can feel that). Lever the edge out. Remove the rest of it with a circular movement like the rod movement when changing a tire on a tire machine.

It snicks right back in with a bit of pressing with your finners.

If you bend it up..you did something wrong. :shock:


Just a comment on this procedure - I would do it exactly as described with the exception of sticking the scribe between the seal and OUTER race ring. Reason being - if there is a nick or minute deformation on the edge of the seal due to the scribe - the nick will not affect the seal surface that the inner race ring runs on. i.e. seal stays stationary on this type of bearing as the inner race ring turns with the axle - revolving the inner greased bearings against the outer stationary race/ring. Hope this makes sense!! Clear as Mud Right - Just look at the bearing when you remove it and then maybe this will make sense.
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Postby scheckaet » 09:48 pm Dec 20 2006

ok. I managed to remove seal and circlip.
Anybody knows where to find somethin simillar localy?
bearing remover shaft 57001-1265
bearing remover head 57001-1293
bearing driver set 57001-1129?
thx
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Postby Indawoods » 09:53 pm Dec 20 2006

There are several universal units.... NAPA would have some I'm sure...
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Postby IdahoCharley » 02:15 am Dec 21 2006

Talking rear hub wheel bearing removal correct?? Have axle seals and wheel bearing retaining circlip removed already correct?? Don't need anything fancy to get er done!!

From where you are at:

1. Dislodge the spacer collar slightly to one side of either bearing. You should now be able to look through the axle opening in the wheel and see a portion of the inner ring on the bearing exposed.

2. Insert a metal drift tool (10 inch section of 3/8 inch steel rod or even an 1/4 or 3/8 inch extension from a racket set using the female end because it is more flat than male end) through the axle shaft opening -through the spacer collar - and place the end of the drift AGAINST the exposed portion of the inner race.

3. Take a hammer and tap the drift tool a time or two.

4. Slide the drift tool to a position directly across from where you first tapped the bearing (dislodging the spacer collar again) and repeat the process.

5. Continue alternating the drift tool taps on the wheel bear first from one side than to another side. The idea is to drive the bearing out of the hub's in a fairly straight pattern. You don't want to cock the bearing causing it to bind.

6. Once the first bearing drops out of the hub the spacer collar will also drop out.

7. Second bearing is easier since you have a lot more space to work with and it a direct shot with a removal tool. I normally just use a socket which is reversed to drive out the second bearing straight. (insert the extension into the socket though the sockets face. Use the socket head now as your flat driver to remove the remaining bearing.)

8. Installation of the new bearing (after filling with waterproof grease) is essentially the same.
a. lightly smear a little grease into the bearing wells in the hub

b. square up the new bearing to the bearing well and GENTLY start it in using the OUTER BEARING ring to tap it "home" until it is seated ///OR use a properly sized reversed socket to drive the bearing home. This is usually easier since the outer and inner bearing rings are square with one another and you don't have to worry about damaging the bearing from hitting the inner bearing ring. You just square it up and tap it "home". .

c. insert the spacer collar

d. square up the second bearing and repeat the process centering the spacer in the hub prior to final seating the the second bearing. Spacer collar can still be a little loose but it should be centered enough to get the axle to slide through. (it will tighten up when you tighten the rear axle on the bike) reinstall circlip/seals/spacers and your done.

FWIW - some people will cool the bearing prior to installing. I like to heat the hub with a propane torch in the bearing hub area until it isvery hot to the touch prior to installing the bearings. Neither is necessary to get the job done - in my experience most people perform the task very similar to what I have posted.
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Postby scheckaet » 10:29 am Dec 21 2006

Thanks IdahoCharley you are a life saver.
I went to every autoshop around (autozone, oreilly, joe shmoe and even NAPA) and nobody had the "specific" tool or anything that was close to that. (most of 'em didn't have a clue of what I was talking about :mad: )
I was about to go to the stealership and have them do it :? .
Thankfully I check the site 1st and once again saved me a lot of trouble (and gray hair) :prayer:
I concidered using your technic but wasn't sure it was doable. Now I am relieved and I can hammer away! :supz:
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Postby canyncarvr » 12:00 pm Dec 21 2006

Re: 'with the exception of sticking the scribe between the seal and OUTER race ring.'

I've tried that several times. It didn't work very well. Removing seals from the inner race first for me has resulted in no damage nowhere at no time. From the outside first? A nick, dent, malform everytime.

I have no doubt it's a personal problem..but th'ar 'ya go.


Repeat for emphasis: Do NOT forget to put the spacer in!!


Another personal preference, but I use anti-seize on the outer race/hub on assembly. I've found that to work better than 'plain' grease. Yes, the bearing is press fit into the hub and should certainly not ever spin IN the hub...but you don't want it to get FUSED to the hub over a couple of years time (with good bearings) with corrosion and crud.

Before you stick your axle back in, clean it up, too. Axles commonly get stuck (corroded) to the internal spacer which makes them difficult to remove. Use a harsh scotchbrite (like green for you Austrailans....sic of course) or some rather coarse wet-n-dry paper with some solvent (kero) to remove any corrosion on the axle.

IC: You DID save your write-up for the 'next time' this comes up, right? Good!!

FWIW: A heavy instrument (2# sledge maybe) with light taps works better than a light instrument with 'hammering away' ....taps.

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Postby IdahoCharley » 01:51 pm Dec 21 2006

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canyncarvr wrote:IC: You DID save your write-up for the 'next time' this comes up, right? Good!!



I'm not sure the write-up is worth saving but even if it was - how would one save it? Copy and save in 'word' or is there an easier way on the forum here?
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Postby scheckaet » 02:08 pm Dec 21 2006

you could bookmark the page as a reference, I have :wink:
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Postby canyncarvr » 05:59 pm Dec 21 2006

Sure it's worth it! (well, except for any references to 'picking' the seal at the outside race!! :wink: )

Word, wordpad or notepad. Word will want to save it in either a rich text or htm format. That's all fine. Inda don't want no steenking html posted here, so it will 'convert' to plain text if you copy/paste it a next time.

Yeah. A bookmark would work, but then you would be one of those smartypants types that says things like:
Mr. SmartyPants wrote:That's been covered a brazillion times on this forum already. Try using the search function!!


Or:
Some less helpful might have done wrote:You frigging idiot - that is the dumbest set-up I've ever heard of. Take your bike to someone with brains to get fixed before you kill someone!


:wink:

I copied it myself, saved in 'KDX stuff' as 'ICs bearing removal/install writeup'


...you didn't copyright it or anything...so I stole it!
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Postby scheckaet » 06:01 pm Dec 21 2006

...you didn't copyright it or anything...so I stole it!

:lol:
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Postby IdahoCharley » 11:52 pm Dec 21 2006

Thanks for the information guys. :grin:
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Postby scheckaet » 02:42 pm Dec 22 2006

OK, got the old bearings out and it was E.A.S.Y. a few bang with a hammer and they poped right out. (big thanks to IC :wink: )
The hardest part was to find the new ones, went all over town trying to find something cheaper and closer than the kawi dealership and finally found some for 5 $ each at the local cycle shop (NAAPA wanted 28 $ a piece :roll: ), I know prolly low quality but I need them for tomorrow's ride (just received my helmet cam (thanks Mr wibben :wink: ), so I really HAVE to ride and check it out!) and beside it's so easy to replace that next time it should be done in 5 min :wink: .

I cleaned up everything reall good (hub, tube and axel). Now is the time for reassembly.
Question: do you put any grease OUTSIDE the tube? It doesn't seem like you'd need to, maybe a light coat for keeping it from rusting? I'll put grease on the axel when I put it all back together.

I assume you stuff as much grease in and around the bearings on both sides when you put them on. right?
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Postby canyncarvr » 02:59 pm Dec 22 2006

Some do pack the hub full of grease. If it's full of grease, it's not full of water, mud, dirt, crud and junk (in that order!).

Some complain that's too much weight.

Take your pick. I don't generally worry about it.

Where grease is important is INSIDE the bearing. Slathering it around all over the place OUTside isn't likely real useful..and may cause a problem.

Don't 'stuff as much' grease as you can BEHIND the bearing for example. You don't want anything to interfere with it seating as it should. Some grease? Yeah. Your 'stuff as much' is what caught my attention.

DO fill the inner cavity of the wheel spacer/seal with grease on re-assy. That will help keep water and junk AWAY from the bearing seal itself.

How's that?

Oh..the 'stuff as much' doesn't apply to packing the INside of the bearing, either. Enough to do the job, NOT so much as to prevent the grease seals from seating as they are supposed to.

It is indeed a Question of Balance.

Ride my see-saw.
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