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free performance ??

Postby krazyinski » 08:57 am Dec 04 2006

I pulled my pipe after a fairly nasty ride at Barnwell Mountain a week ago to reseal and inspect. here in south Texas the weather changes 20-30 degrees this time of year from morning to after noon and dew point as well. my jetting is good put as the air filter and temp changes so does the jetting. I run closer to the rich side than lean. (could be that FRP porting that makes it so sensitive)

after inspecting the pipe I looked inside and found carbon build up just inside the neck, 1/8 inch or higher looked like a weld or large version of one couldn't see it with out a flashlight . After cleaning and putting it all back together the throttle response is much smoother, 2nd and 3rd role on has good even power down low in the 1/4 to 1/2 throttle range were I spend most of the time.

lesson learned: don't jump on assumptions before a good inspection of the bike. These things sneak up on you over time, all this time dialing the suspension in I over looked some basic maintainance and easily adapted to the gradual degradation of my throttle response. take in mind it was not bad at all, but the grin factor is much higher know.
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Postby layoutd » 11:05 am Dec 04 2006

Why is it that spooge does not collect in the header pipe like it does in the silencer?

Dropping of the pressure in the silencer cause the oils to condensate?
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Postby KDXer » 11:25 am Dec 04 2006

Header pipe = alot hotter.
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Postby canyncarvr » 12:50 pm Dec 04 2006

Re: 'After cleaning and putting it all back together..'

What was your cleaning method?

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Postby layoutd » 03:21 pm Dec 04 2006

so, as opposed to the drop in pressure in the silencer, it is a drop in temperature that causes the drop out. feel like i'm back in my thermodynamics class.
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Postby canyncarvr » 03:39 pm Dec 04 2006

Re: 'Why is it that spooge does not collect in the header pipe like it does in the silencer?'

Aftermarketedly speaking, the silencer is packed full of absorbent material..the header pipe isn't.

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Postby krazyinski » 03:51 pm Dec 04 2006

cleaning method is removing as much solid carbon by scraping then pressure wash with simple green,then muriatic acid and water solution in the pipe shake and soak for 10-15 minutes pressure wash followed by a viniger and water rinse. blow dry then new looking pipe. inside and out. carful with the acid 1 cup acid to 3/4 of a gallon of water. the acid I keep for pool maintainance.
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Postby canyncarvr » 04:15 pm Dec 04 2006

Did you happen to weigh your pipe before and after?

The muriatic acid indeed eats carbon that efficiently?

What %? If you're using only 8oz. to three quarts of water, I'd suspect you're using something pretty rowdy.

..and that % is available at my local pool and spa store?

I spent a good piece of change on lye to clean my pipe. I don't think it accomplished much..particularly judging by the weight before/after...which was a negligible change.

Vinegar is itself an acid...it neutrailizes muriatic acid? Not something like soda?

Thanks!

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Postby Jeb » 09:13 pm Dec 04 2006

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:Did you happen to weigh your pipe before and after?

The muriatic acid indeed eats carbon that efficiently?

What %? If you're using only 8oz. to three quarts of water, I'd suspect you're using something pretty rowdy.

..and that % is available at my local pool and spa store?

I spent a good piece of change on lye to clean my pipe. I don't think it accomplished much..particularly judging by the weight before/after...which was a negligible change.

Vinegar is itself an acid...it neutrailizes muriatic acid? Not something like soda?

Thanks!


I can shed a little light here . . .

First, just in case it's not known - purely for safety purposes - muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid and is highly corrosive - USE WITH CAUTION. It would be better to find something else.

Second, again, just in case: pH scale is 1 to 14. Acid ranges from 1 to 7 with the lower number being most acidic; conversely, alkaline ranges from 7 to 14, the higher number being most alkaline or "caustic". Neutral is about 7, so if you want to neutralize an acid you would use something caustic, like baking soda - lots of it, though - or less of something like lye (sodium hydroxide is a relatively strong caustic).

Muriatic acid to clean gooey carbon deposits? At the mixing ratio described, a 30% sol'n gets cut to 2.5% so I don't believe you'd hurt the pipe (too strong an acid COULD).

Vinegar, being an acid (in fact, pH ranges from 2 to 3.5) would not work to neutralize the muriatic, so any benefit would be for another reason . . .

A solvent would be a better way to go. Some of that toluene you put in your premix might be pretty effective but you would need to worry about thoroughly airing it out . . .

I need to clean the spooge out of my son's JR silencer so I'm gonna try some NMP (n-methyl pyrrolidone). This stuff is great and relatively safe. I've used it to clean extruder elements of hard-baked powder coating (took some heat but you get the jist).

I'll report back on the NMP.

If anyone must use muriatic acid:
-wear chemical resistant gloves AND wear eye protection.
-remember, "do what you oughta and add the acid to the watah". Heat of reaction the other way around can cause the stuff to "erupt".
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Postby quailchaser » 09:53 pm Dec 04 2006

Good stuff Jeb. Definately let us know how the NMP experiment works out. If it works well, post where you got it as well.

For Me--I try and crush my pipes long before they need cleaning. :blink:
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Postby Colorado Mike » 09:57 pm Dec 04 2006

:lol:
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Postby motorider200 » 10:11 pm Dec 04 2006

>|<>QBB<
quailchaser wrote:
For Me--I try and crush my pipes long before they need cleaning. :blink:


Haha sounds like me! Then they come back nice and clean from Pacific Crest! :partyman:
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Postby AZRickD » 12:02 am Dec 05 2006

QuailChaser has two (2) pipe guards on his KX, and only put one on the KDX.

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Postby quailchaser » 12:43 am Dec 05 2006

>|<>QBB<
AZRickD wrote:QuailChaser has two (2) pipe guards on his KX, and only put one on the KDX.

Rick


Yep, and it worked great--not one dent. There are TWO, matching up perfectly with the frame down tubes...and the pipe is crushed into an odd oval shape! :mrgreen: As of now, I am fully undecided on the pipe guard thing. When I get the pipe repaired...or when I can convince myself to spend the money on an SST set up, I'll re-visit the: pipe guard or not question.

I've had this discussion with several of the A and B riders in our area. The consensus is that pipe guards do infact prevent dents, but aide in crushing. Most of them don't run pipe guards any more...and it shows. But, dang they ARE fast. Probably, the real reason is the weight savings. Yea, that's it. If I just shed the pipe guard weight, place a few unsightly, but non-performance robbing dents in the expansion chamber, I too can be fast. :wink:
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Postby Jeb » 08:39 pm Dec 06 2006

NMP is expensive!!

Even if you buy it in large quantities (like 5,000 pounds minimum) it's $15 a gallon. I tried to get one gallon and it was almost three times that much.

BUT if you are privy to some (most likely in an industrial setting) it's a fantastic solvent. For lots of stuff. Low toxicity, miscible in water at any temperature, etc . . . but expensive.

But I'm not done . . .

An acid or alkaline, under the right conditions, and likely to varying degrees, would do it. The muriatic "works" but acids can eat metal. An alkaline would be better in that respect, so I'll keep looking . . .

BTW CC: you mentioned lye - lye is alkaline. Sounded like you weren't overly impressed, but perhaps it was the method. What did you do?
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Postby canyncarvr » 12:19 pm Dec 20 2006

I missed any notices of responses to this thread..didn't think any had been made.

Re: Lye

No. Was not impressed. Method? Likely.

I bought something like a 'quart' of flake from some chemical outfit. The 'method' was VERY scientific!! I dumped in 1/2 the container of lye into the pipe, filled it with water, let it sit for a day or two.

Lots of black junk came out, but the pipe was not much lighter than it was. That only a subjective idea, 'cuz I didn't WEIGH it beforehand.

I recall the lye flake I got to be about pure NaOH. The pipe surely did get hotter'n hades.

I appreciate your input, Jeb. Surely there is a magic bullet out there that can clean out my pipe without melting a hole in my driveway.

You think toluene would work better?

Thanks!

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Postby grump99 » 05:21 pm Dec 20 2006

What about oven cleaner? I have heard of people using it to clean power valves and such.
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