more carb q's

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more carb q's

Postby 2001kdx » 02:29 pm Nov 29 2006

Yesterday i finally pulled that carb off and got into the jetting. i dicovered that it's a really simple procedure. i had the 160/48 oem jets in there, and replaced them with 158/45. the only jets i had were 155/158 and a 45 pilot, but it seems i need the 155, because i had significant spooge even though the silencer packing was good. Now, i have a bog between 3-4 thousand rpm's. Some of my tests like the 2nd gear walking speed test were much improved, and the bike runs much stronger, but i couldnt fix the bog with the airscrew. Where is the needle located so i can change the clip position? What was the thing that came out of the top with the spring?
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Postby Green Hornet » 02:51 pm Nov 29 2006

The plastic piece in the spring keeps the cable connected to the slide. The needle is just that a needle. That is connected to the slide. Lower the clip one notch to make it richer. In the future....Change one circut at a time so you have an idea where the bog may have come from...
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Postby Indawoods » 03:43 pm Nov 29 2006

155/45 is pretty much ideal on a 200 with the needle clip in the center position during normal operating tempatures and a moderate elevation.
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Postby 2001kdx » 05:03 pm Nov 29 2006

So the needle is what inserts down the middle of the carb? I'll try the next richer position to see if it gets better.
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Postby KarlP » 05:29 pm Nov 29 2006

Yeah-
That needle is tapered. It goes down through the main jet. As the slide moves up and down because of your right hand twisting the throttle, the needle effectively varies the size of your main jet. Move the clip down so the needle comes further out for a given slide position. (and vise versa)

I'm not being a smart mouth, either. There was a time I didn't know what that needle was for. Then I found out it won't work very well if you bend it while screwing around with things :lol:
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Postby thebleakness » 09:35 pm Nov 29 2006

Haha, make sure you put that spring collar back in. A friend of mine forgot to put that thing in when he reassembled the carb. It just so happened that the cable popped out while I was riding up a steep cinder hill....FULL THROTTLE ALL THE WAY UP. :lol: Took a few minutes to fix but needless to say, it scared the hell out of me. :prayer:

If I remember correctly its an 8mm socket to get the cable holder out. Watch out for those E-clips though, years ago when I was building an RC car I somehow managed to hook one of those through my finger. The doc had to cut it out and sew it back up with some stitches. I still fear putting those little buggers in. :oops:
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Postby Colorado Mike » 09:45 pm Nov 29 2006

The needle doesn't really go through the main jet. The main jet hole is way too tiny.

I'm wondering how you are measuring these RPMs you quote. and further wondering what that has to do with what circuit you are tuning on the carb. I say this because you could come pretty close or possibly exceed 2K rpm without even twisting the grip on a bike that is running too lean on the pilot, or running out of gas, or has an air leak... get my drift? Most carb tuners speak of throttle openings, not RPM ranges.

The mushmetal 6mm nut that holds your needle in is just begging to be ruined by you using a 12 point socket, or tightening it even slightly too much, or failing to use anti seize compound on it.

be careful.
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Postby Mr. Wibbens » 09:50 pm Nov 29 2006

Over at "that other site" there were some very good instructions on this, with pics even
I'd link it here but I am banished for life from that stinkhole :wink:

A roachclip ahem ahem, I mean a pair of forceps helps immensely
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Postby radonc73 » 07:41 pm Dec 18 2006

My forcepts are already sticky at the end will this help hold the cable to move the needle. How sharp should the needle end be? I took mine apart and it is not very pointy. It isn't mushroomed but is round at the end is this right? Is there a picture of when the needle gets blunt. I tryed to cut and paste a drawing from that other site but it won't go. I don't have the little nipple at the end. Is that supposed to be there, could this be causing my throttle to stick? Does anyone else hear the spring in you carb pretty loudly when you twist the throttle? I am hoping Santa will bring a service manual or I will have to "find" one in the garage I didn't know I had.
Last edited by radonc73 on 08:02 pm Dec 18 2006, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Indawoods » 07:54 pm Dec 18 2006

Your forcepts are in prime condition! :wink:

Your needle should be fine... do you have a pic? Is there any mechanical damage to it?
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Postby radonc73 » 09:39 pm Dec 18 2006

I don't see any mechanical damage I will try to send a pic of the needle in a minute if I can figure out how to post it.
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Postby radonc73 » 10:18 pm Dec 18 2006

I was able to put it in a gallery but cann't get it to come up here. It is called Radonc73s needle. Sorry I am computer illiterate and have 6 beers in me. I hope this helps but I can always retake photo.
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Postby quailchaser » 02:28 am Dec 19 2006

Image

That would make your bike run funny. The outside of the needle is almost transparent, while the inside is solid.

These are the things I've found when I've had the sticky throttle syndrom...not to be confused with the wiskey throttle syndrom.
1. The plastic piece on the end of the spring, that holds the cable in the slot, missed the slot and was not seated properly. Solution...remove said spring and plastic piece and reinstall properly.

2. Throttle cable not routed properly and pinched between the tank and fram. Solution--Loosen tank and re-route cable properly.

3. Grip rubbing on throttle housing keeping throttle from returning all the way to idle. Solution 1--trim grip. Solution 2--attempt to pull grip away from housing, then safetywire grip in place. Solution 3--get angry and savagely cut grip off throttle tube and toss in garbage. Repeat on non throttle tube side of bars. Install new grips with proper clearance between grip and throttle housing.

4. Cable fraying causing it to hang up in the cable housing. Solution--replace with good cable--ussually OEM is best, but Motion pro can work.
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Postby radonc73 » 07:05 am Dec 19 2006

I took that picture after a few barley pops, sorry about that. I have replaced the cable already. I don't see any other way to route the cable. The end of the cable where it goes into the cap is at a bit of an angle, more than I would like. I will be getting a service manual soon so hopefully it will have the routing in there. The cable top hits my reserve part on my tank. I rechecked the plastic piece and it seems to be seated properly is there any way to know for sure? If anyone has a picture of the throttle cable going into the cap, could you please post it. I will look in the gallery to see if anyone has a close up I could reference. The more I look at the routing by the cap, seems at more of an angle than I remember but that tank is so big I don't see how else it can go. I took the cable off when I replaced it to find out that they sent me a KX cable which I took back and had to wait to get the right one. Maybe I screwed the pooch somewhere along the way. It stuck before I replaced the cable and just figured that it wasn't the problem. Is it possible to rotate the carb w/o causing more problems?
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Postby canyncarvr » 03:16 pm Dec 19 2006

This is getting a bit spread out...


Re: Is there any way to know for sure (white nylon insert)?

You can see by looking at it. It fits only one way..with the tab IN the slot of the needle nut. When properly installed the insert will sit flat in place, it will not be at all cocked sidewise. If the tab is NOT placed properly, the insert will be crooked.


Cable routing pic:

OK..I give up (not many tries). Something about the properties of the pic is obviously wrong..but I don't know how to fix it. Inda? Pic is in my gallery, titled, 'My scoot with lot'sa hoses'. Easily gotten to by following the 'gallery' link in my sig. Got the REAL addy (thanks M0rie), but the question remains as to 'why'.


Image


The cable-into-cap part isn't real clear, but I don't understand the question anyway. There isn't much choice in that. The cap-top on the KDX is a proprietary sort of thing due to its curve. The cable end fits into the end of the curved tube..that's about it.

Re: Is it possible to rotate the carb without causing problems.

Not too much. There is a slot in the reed cage boot that corresponds to an index tab on the carb. It pretty much fits one way. You can fudge a little, but there will likely be side effects...like your carb peeing because the float level function is 'off'. Generally, the carb NEEDS to sit a bit more 'clockwise' (when viewed from the rear than it WANTS to sit. The OEM PWK is more forgiving of that than the 4-vent carb pictured. The 4-vent needs to be snugged pretty good against the frame to be oriented properly.

A btw..but it is quite easy to crossthread the cap. Don't do that! On reassembly, clean both cap and carb body threads. A bit of light lubricant (Triflow works) helps a lot.

So....now what? Fixed? Different than pictured? Not?

Eh?? :hmm:

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Postby radonc73 » 09:37 pm Dec 19 2006

OK I looked at it again, put the tab in the slot, carb spring sound went away, I looked at my throttle cable and it is not like yours mine doesn't have the curve, I have a straight cable that I have to curve in a pretty sharp angle to get it to go into the carb. I don't think anyone else would make a throttle cable that curves for my bike. The Kawasaki empart even shows both ends straight. Part #54012-1410. Can any of you KDX Gurus tell me if there is a curved cable that fits? :prayer: I feel that may help my throttle problems. I have it apart now so I can't take a picture of it in place but I really think it is the cable but what solution do I have? Do they make universal cables like I would need i.e. with the bend at the right spot? That is why I was wondering about the routing. I cann't seem to run it so I don't have the bend.
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Postby Mr. Wibbens » 10:11 pm Dec 19 2006

I believe the curve is part of the carb on the cap

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Postby RBD » 12:21 am Dec 20 2006

I guess I missed something here....... From what you are saying, it sounds like you have a aftermarket PWK carb. Is it a quad vent air striker? What needle is in it? Does it have a 4.5 slide?

The stock KDK carbs have a curved fitting that comes out of the top of the carb cap. The aftermarket PWK carbs come with a straight in fitting that has a jam nut.

Again the jetting and your straight in cable fitting sounds like an after market carb......????????

I could be wrong on this but from what you are saying, this would be my guess

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Postby KDXer » 01:04 am Dec 20 2006

I'm confused. radonc73 are you talking about your 83 model carb ??
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Postby radonc73 » 06:00 am Dec 20 2006

It is the 93 KDX 250, how would I know if it is aftermarket? I have owned it for several years and just figured everything was stock. I bought it from a shop on consignment and the guy never even modded the airbox unless he removed it then reinstalled it when he sold it. I will try to get a picture of the carb on this site soon. Thanks RB and all who have helped a lost soul in the land of carbs. The blowup on the Kawi owners site says I have the right cap, for a 93 the part numbers are the same for Wibbs blow up and under parts diagram, would I be able to buy a new cap? Maybe this was a problem and that is why they put the curve in? . It seems like it was a KDX 250 thing b/c even the 200s had the curve, same part # 1 curve 1 not WTF. Same cable for both so I am 90%sure curve cap would fit, but don't understand the reason only the KDX 250s have it like this unless b/c they were based on 88KX? They just didn't account for the bigger tank? Even the 93 KX has curve. They have different #s at Bikebandit, is that bad news?
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