KDX200 vs KTM EXC250 (the 2-stroke years, of course)

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Jeb
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KDX200 vs KTM EXC250 (the 2-stroke years, of course)

Post by Jeb »

I gotta tell ya, I've been mulling hard about my next bike to get largely because my first choice wasn't the greatest. 'Been 20 years since I raced mx, and so I get a TTR230 knowing that it would be "tame" but thinking I could live with it, especially riding with a youngin. BUT . . . with the exception of tractoring around at slow uphill speeds it falls short in every department, especially in the suspension department (OK, so I'm a little overweight). I've basically "outgrown" it in a few months. So I could've made a better choice.

'Fact is, before the TTR my first instict was a KDX200 and I recently reinforced the regret by riding a KDX200 - I fell in love with it. Reminded me of my 2-stroke days but in a mellow, wide power-band package, really lovely. I didn't get a chance to check out the suspension (I think the guy had a stock setup) for what it's worth.

I'm at the verge of selling the TTR and getting a "new to me" KDX . . . and then what should appear but a KTM 250exc. 'First impression - NO WAY, used to have a YZ250 but that's not my style these days (I'm domesticated and sane). But then I read up on the exc and hear great promises of "buttery-smooth" power and easy riding. And a primo suspension. Sounds to good to be true!

First question: Any experiences? Bottom line is I'm confident with the power of the KDX and my take is that I can make her roar with not a whole lot of $$. Gnarly pipe, jetting, gearing. Then RB mods. From mild to wild, and over time, at my learning curve and skill improvements. Can I go "mild" with the 250exc?

Second question: Can someone quantify how much $$ to turn the stock KDX suspension around? I'm not trying to bash the KDX suspension and I can't really say that it's bad from experience, I've just been reading this forum quite a bit lately. I do sense that it would be a good thing to improve a KDX's suspension before all of the power mods, say after the pipe/gearing but before the RB mods.

Any feedback is appreciated, and thanks ahead of time. And if you do or have owned the KTM to which I'm referring a comparison would be great (hint: I already know that the 300 will pull your arms out of their sockets and that a 200 tends to be a little pipey for the woods, like a 125). Unfortunately, I most likely will NOT have the opportunity to test the exc.
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Post by tim »

take a look at price diff. between bikes and parts i did before buying a 06 KDX200 over the ktm you get a better deal with the KDX and for what it cost to set it up for your riding style ( witch you will have to do with any bike ) it is hands down the best deal as far as the suspension you don't have to flip it just set it up for your weight and style of ridding.
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Post by Indawoods »

I've had the KTM 250 EXC... unless you race, I say stay away from it.

IT WILL HURT YOU!

Suspension is great but it has a higher center of gravity, the motor is not tunable to be a kitten.... pretty much.. all or none and throttle control is a must.

The KDX...
You can put a KX frontend on it for a couple of hundred which is cheaper than respringing and revalving the stock suspension. It puts it right there with and modern bike.

Unless you are racing MX, a top level enduro or harescramble racer...the KDX has as much as you will ever need. There are alot of modifications that are free or very cheap that brings the total cost of ownership much lower than the KTM.

You can sell your TTR, buy a KDX and put money back in your pocket. That will not happen with the KTM unless you buy a turd.

The choice is yours...
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Post by Bailey28 »

I agree with Inda, the 2 stroke MX bikes are killers for what I/we do with them these days. I am in my 30's, domesticated and ride mostly trails with light mx duty here and there. I've been riding trails and track since I was 9 and have had the MX bikes before and enjoyed them as a kid.

I sold a 2001 DRZ400S under the advice of an experienced MX guy and bought a used 2004 YZ250 smoker that had been ported, revalved, etc for an "A" expert MXer. I rode the bike for one year, almost killing myself each time out. It hated to go slow, and was smoother the faster I rode it, to the point of stupid-fast. I can't afford a hospital co-pay every weekend, and need my body to function at work to put food on the table. I'm past the 50+ hp dirt bikes and the 110ft triple jump capable suspension. Never going to do that again....

Long story short, I sold it for what I paid for it and bought an 05 KDX 200 that had one ride on the clock for $3300 OTD. I modded the forks and removed most of the excess stuff, ie headlight, kickstand, etc to lighten it.

I did the RB carb mods and a PC Platinum II pipe. I love this bike, it does everything I want it to. Believe it, I can go faster on this bike through the same trails and tracks that I could on the YZ. Yah, the YZ is the faster bike, no question, but in this case, less is more.
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Post by AZRickD »

Swap KX forks and hardware (brakes, triple clamps) for the same price as a spring upgrade? Or was that re-springing *and* revalving... with Gold valves?

I can get a shop to do the springs on my 2003 KDX220 for $200+.

How much does a KX swap cost (new vs used -- me vs shop etc)? Is this a matter of buying new components or going to a bike junk yard?

Okay, okay. I'll go to the KX Fork Swap forum... :)

http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=104

Very tempted.

Thanks,

Rick
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Post by Indawoods »

You can do the KX fork swap for $200.. sometimes cheaper....
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Post by Colorado Mike »

It depends a lot on what kind of riding you do. I went the route of a new KDX 220, modded the hell out of it, and it's a nice bike. It does well in tight technical stuff. If I get in the open, with whooped out straights and wider rutted turns, my kids YZ125 will kick the crap out of it, even with me riding the YZ. The YZ suspension is so good, and it's so light and powerful that it is very comfortable to ride fast. In my opinion, it is also made a lot nicer than the KDX. Kind of Apples and "oranges" since you are looking at a KTM, but if you like the agility and power of the MX bikes, I think you'll find the Jap ones are a dime a dozen, since most of the racers are going 4 stroke. If you check your local MX racing organizations website, you'll see guys desperate to sell their 2-3 year old bikes.

BTW, I rode a KTM300, and it has a very nice motor, good power down low, so it was easier to ride than you may think. The bike was very uncomfortable to me though, and I don't mean the seat. The position of the pegs, bars and all just didn't really fit my style very well. Also the steering was much twitchier than my bike or the YZ. It steered very precisely, but I had to stay on top of it all the time. I got the feeling that it would be very tiring for me to ride all day. I don't get that feeling on my KDX or the YZ. You might feel differently, but I would recommend you ride one on your trails for a good couple of hours before you buy.

Good Luck.
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Post by Jeb »

>|<>QBB<
Indawoods wrote:I've had the KTM 250 EXC... unless you race, I say stay away from it.

IT WILL HURT YOU!

Suspension is great but it has a higher center of gravity, the motor is not tunable to be a kitten.... pretty much.. all or none and throttle control is a must.

The KDX...
You can put a KX frontend on it for a couple of hundred which is cheaper than respringing and revalving the stock suspension. It puts it right there with and modern bike.

Unless you are racing MX, a top level enduro or harescramble racer...the KDX has as much as you will ever need. There are alot of modifications that are free or very cheap that brings the total cost of ownership much lower than the KTM.

You can sell your TTR, buy a KDX and put money back in your pocket. That will not happen with the KTM unless you buy a turd.

The choice is yours...
Thanks a mil $$, Inda, the phrase you have in bold speaks volumes. I suspected that, while the 250exc may have better throttle control than an straight 250mxer, it's still that kind of bike. "All or none" has it's place but not with my eastern and western hemispheres sitting on it. Also, from your description the total cost to make a KDX's suspension great is highly acceptable.

Sounds like the KDX is the smart thing
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Post by m0rie »

The KDX is a good bike. If you run thru the mods and still find it lacking you can always sell it and get a KTM but I think you'd be pretty suprised at what the green bike can do with a little attention...
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Post by Indawoods »

I just didn't want to see you do 15 summersaults after landing a 60 footer and cracking the gas trying to hold on..... like I did. :shock: :oops:
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Post by m0rie »

Whiskey Throttle Bad!!! :lol:
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Post by Jeb »

>|<>QBB<
Indawoods wrote:I just didn't want to see you do 15 summersaults after landing a 60 footer and cracking the gas trying to hold on..... like I did. :shock: :oops:
I've actually been there . . .

I don't remember humongous table tops and triples in mx in the early '80s.

But a 250 was just about as vicious!

Which is why I was wondering 'bout that exc . . .
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Post by Indawoods »

KTM's (KILL THE MAN) ARE race bikes. That's what they are designed to do. Being such... they require a steady throttle hand and a great deal of focus to ride. A slight twist of the throttle will loop the bike out. That 250 was the most stout 250 I have ever ridden. The handling was twitchy and the seat was a 2x4.

It was uncomfortable to ride but a pure addreneline rush. I get the same rush on a KDX but when I want one instead of out of the blue.

Great bikes but I have to make it to work on Monday..... :mrgreen:
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Post by Jeb »

The feedback here is great, what a cool forum.

What's with the "whiskey throttle" anyway?
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Post by Indawoods »

An unexpected twist of throttle... as in a panic! :lol:
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Post by Jeb »

Aha, exactly what I don't want.

Nothing could be worse than riding in the woods with a 9 year old on a JR80 and having the "whiskey throttle" take over.
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Post by quailchaser »

I'm currently riding a KX250 set up for ST/Desert. I had both the KX and the KDX...unfortunatly the KDX had to be sacrificed for a new truck. The KX handles better in some respects and worse in others than the KDX. I've also had the opportunity to ride several different 200's, 250's, 300's, and 500's. Out of those, Overall, I've liked the 250 power plant the best.

As CO. Mike stated...one big factor in bike choice is the type of terrain you ride. I ride a mix of tight rocky low traction ST, wide open sand wash, and two track. Vince's experience with the 250 on a MX track is the exact reason I have no desire to try and fly. Seems like every week there is at least one rider we know that gets hurt (6 weeks or more to rehab) that was riding MX. Not even close to the same can be said for our offroad guys. I'll take the A level ST long before I'll ever attempt a true double or triple. :shock:

Vince is also absolutely correct in that the 250 2 stroke “race class” bikes generally work better with a more aggressive style of riding. The type of rider/or riding style (aggressive, play, mixture of both, speed, ect) also is also a big factor in bike choice. A "racing 2 stroke" bike is probably not the best choice, when most of your riding is chasing a youngin' around on a little bike or “trail riding” tight woods.

I try and ride with my son (he’s on a PW80) every week or two. We ride mostly low C level ST. The KX250 handles this fine. Especially now that he’s picked up some speed and we don’t stop near as often. The KX does well in the tight stuff, but requires more attention and throttle control than the KDX. Once you get the KX in the sand, jeep road, or whoops there is no comparison. The KX power flat out handles this stuff way better than the KDX. However, as has been stated before it's real easy to find yourself going way fast. Not quite as easy as a 500, but that’s a different thread.

If I were riding all tight technical stuff that included those big stick things with green stuff hanging on the tops (I think you guys call them trees?) and chasing the “kid”, there would be no better choice than the KDX. Which sounds like the kind of riding your planning.

On a side note. Seems like every A level offroad rider I know says that they had owned a KDX. Every one of those guy have also said they loved that bike and were sorry they got rid of it. I'm no A level rider, but I loved my KDX and I too am sorry I got rid of it. You won't be disappointed with the KDX. :mrgreen:
Last edited by quailchaser on 12:22 am Sep 07 2006, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by AZRickD »

You always make me feel so guilty.

:oops:

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Post by NM_KDX200 »

Well, I have a KTM 200sx and when I got it, I put the KDX up for sale. I soon came to my senses, though (it's in the archives somewhere) and pulled the KDX. I use the KTM on the track and haven't taken it off-road yet. It's a 200, not a 250, and it's pretty fast. But, it also lugs surprisingly well and if you adjust the powervalve, you can put off the "hit" until about 3/4 throttle or so. This makes it pretty manageable up to 1/2 throttle. After that, it takes off. I don't think I'd want a 250.

I rode the KDX the other day and it weren't bad. The seat's like a couch, it weighs 25 lbs more than the KTM (and mostly up high), but it's still a good bike. I'm keeping mine exclusively for off-road exploring, woods riding, and such. My wife (the one who told me to keep it and therefore ROCKS! :supz: ) has been riding the KDX and she likes it alright. For her, we took the Desert pipe off and put the Woods back on (good thing I didn't sell it). Pulls nice down low with absolutely no hit at all. In fact, I can barely even do wheelies on it anymore.

Anyway, now that I own both a KTM and KDX and can therefore speak with authority :rolleyes: , CO Mike is right- it depends what you want it for.
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Post by quailchaser »

>|<>QBB<
NM_KDX200 wrote:Well, I have a KTM 200sx and when I got it, I put the KDX up for sale. I soon came to my senses, though (it's in the archives somewhere) and pulled the KDX. I use the KTM on the track and haven't taken it off-road yet. It's a 200, not a 250, and it's pretty fast. But, it also lugs surprisingly well and if you adjust the powervalve, you can put off the "hit" until about 3/4 throttle or so. This makes it pretty manageable up to 1/2 throttle. After that, it takes off. I don't think I'd want a 250.
Gearing the KTM up 1 or 2 teeth in the rear sprocket will "smooth" the hit for you. :wink: I haven't ridden a KTM 200 with and without the gearing change...but, most of the offroad KTM200 riders I know say this makes a huge difference in the "hit". I have ridden an '02 YZ 250 before and after the owner put a larger rear sprocket on. The difference was not noticable in the bottom end (at least to me) but the "hit" was smoothed quite a bit and made the bike much more managable.
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