Which one first, RB mod or Delta Force III?

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wanaride
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Which one first, RB mod or Delta Force III?

Post by wanaride »

I'm interested in entering the next level of mods, and it seems that either the RB carb mod or the Delta Force III are good candidates. (I've already re-jetted the bike, new pipe & S/A, new fork springs & shock spring, drilled airbox lid & removed snorkel, 12T front sprocket.)

Which one should I do first, or does it really matter?

Thanks for your help!
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Post by canyncarvr »

I wouldn't say it matters which one first. If you had to choose just one, I'd say the carb mod is a better deal in the 'bang-for-$' category. I'd say that is particularly true if a 220 is the subject of the operation. Your 200 wouldn't change as much. The 220 oem carb is kind'a dinky.

The DF3 IS nice, though. ;)

I think you ought'a buy both of 'em. Put them on one at a time just so you can get a feel for what's happening, but why not get'm both?

Have your wife buy one, YOU buy the other! Call it shariing responsibilities or something.

Sharing is good, isn't it? ;)

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Post by bradf »

Yes, do both! You are going to do it anyway. If money is an issue, then the carb oughtta be first. It will put huge HUGE grin on yer face. Then find the 2nd SS immediately. I can't say enough about the SS. When you do the carb get the finger adjust AS for the extra $20. My AS arrived today and I fondled it for a few minutes then went riding. The DF3 is great, but the carb is way mo bettuh.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Fondling? Screws? My word...what has dirtbiking come to!? :shock:

Take note that bradf's ride is a 220. I'll bet'cha (according to what other riders have said and in line with logical thought) the difference in his bike was more noticeable than if it had been a 200.

I'm not arguing about it, just want to keep wanna's (a 200 owner) question in perspective with the bike model.

MT is now shipping the DF3 for the Banshee! I bring that up only because I'm sure everybody cares!!
Last edited by canyncarvr on 04:20 pm Feb 03 2005, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by m0rie »

Hey CC, just curious are those the heads and carbs off your banshee's pictured on ron's site? If so i'll be waiting for that performance report :wink:

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Post by wanaride »

Bradf, you mention "2nd SS"...what does SS refer to? Set screw?
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Post by Indawoods »

"SWEET SPOT" :razz:
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Post by bradf »

CC coined the SS term
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Post by canyncarvr »

From 11-04-03:
I'll keep this short. Email me if you want further particulars. (ccmaint.no_spam.@peak.org)

This has proven true on three different bikes, two different brands, three riders. It costs you nothing to try it.

There appear to be two 'sweet spots' for air screw adjustment on RB carbs. That's what it's been tried on..I don't know about the oem pwk.

You RB'rs....try your airscrew out further than you'd think reasonable. If you're normally set to (example) 1 1/4 for best throttle response, try something out in the 2 1/4-2 1/2 range.

This considers your jetting to be close in the first place.

You get a different power delivery altogether! Improved pull from very low revs. More throttle gives you more 'go' without 'loop-it' tendencys. Where you'd be downshifting before, more twist works..where more twist before would get you a bog with little-to-no pull.

You'll find mid-throttle response for 3rd gear to be much better, too. You can short shift to 3rd and still have plenty of pull. That's always been a problem with the kdx, cuz 3rd is kinda 'far away' from second ratio-wise.

You can still loft the front any time you want..but it's a controlled pick-up. You can change the amount of loft easily with the throttle.

The 'far out' setting is great for single track..the 'normal' setting better for more open riding (imo).

Keep in mind that the rb modified carb has a useful pilot circuit compared to the oem pwk. Little air screw changes can make a huge difference! Don't be yanking the screw around 1/4 turn at a time, or you'll miss the whole thing!

Give it a shot! I'll bet you'll be surprised!!

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Post by Indawoods »

Has it been determined that the second sweet spot is there on the modified stock PWK? :?
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Post by m0rie »

Indawoods wrote:Has it been determined that the second sweet spot is there on the modified stock PWK? :?
I've been looking for it the last couple of time i've been out riding. Still haven't found it yet though :sad: Gonna keep looking though!

-Maurice

*edit*

I miss read the above quote to be talking about a stock pwk. Mine is not modified (although i'm hoping to get it done sometime soon).

/*edit*
Last edited by m0rie on 05:08 pm Feb 03 2005, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by canyncarvr »

I don't recall the date I put the air striker on. I don't recall (either) if the modified oem pwk did the same thing on my bike or not.

Glad to be such a big help. ;)

bradf: Your carb is a modified oem PWK, isn't it? It is NOT an air striker?

Guess that would answer the question.

Come to think of it, I'm 99% sure that JimCrenca's carb was a modified oem PWK. He had the same experience with air screw adjustment.

**edit**
All terms 'modified' refer to an RB-Designs' modified carb. While I for sure haven't looked for (or found!) any such thing on an UN-modified carb, I'm sure it's not there. It's the modification of the pilot circuit in one of Ron's carbs that makes it happen.

It's not a known thing..as far as WHY it happens. Likely something to do with relationships between all the overlapping circuits in the carb and the modified pilot circuit changing those overlaps. If I recall correctly, Mr. Black theorized that the pilot being in fact out-of-whack at that point (air screw so far out) there may be a greater effect from the 'higher' circuits that normally wouldn't be there (at stated throttle positions).

That's a good bit of paraphrase...meant in no way to be any sort of 'Ron said' thing.

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Post by bradf »

I have a modified oem PWK, not an Airstriker. Adjusting the AS the 'normal' way for high RPM at idle would put it at about 1 1/4 out. It idles and runs great there. The 2nd SS pulls smoother and more linear on the first 1/2 of the throttle. It makes the initial roll on throttle response so much smoother and crisp. It also makes it virtually impossible to cold start and keep running. This is something that has to be set once the engine is warm. Missing the 2nd SS for me is easy to hear because when the throttle is closed quickly there is a distinct rich crackle that I can hear in the beginning of the pipe. This sounds like rocks hitting the front of the pipe. The 1/16 turn adjustment not only eliminated this sound, but there is a "feel" that no matter where the throttle is from off to 1/2, the engine is running perfect.
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Post by farmerj »

bradf wrote: The 2nd SS pulls smoother and more linear on the first 1/2 of the throttle.
I'd second that. On my bike, it does seem like the "1st spot" pulls a little harder through the gears/under heavy acceleration. This may be because I'm jetted slightly lean, although there isn't a "lean bog" or anything. I usually run the 2nd SS because the engine runs smoother, pulls better off the bottom, & has less "4-stroking". I like.

When CC first mentioned the 2nd SS, I thought - "Oh, I've noticed that, too." But that was back when I was running a stock, UN-modified PWK. Maybe I'm dreaming!
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Post by Mr. Wibbens »

Indawoods wrote:Has it been determined that the second sweet spot is there on the modified stock PWK? :?
In a word: YES


Hard to describe it , but you surely know it when you find it!

Awhile back, well a long while back I was on a long, twisty rocky, rutty uphill section. The bike felt like it was about to bog and die, but it didn't... it just kept chugging away and it sounds like no 2 stroke should (kinda like a 4 stroke) just down low, not on the pipe at all. And if I needed to get over a rock or other obstacle I'd just give it somemore and she'd just lift right over but without the ol' loop-out I used to get!

Man, just talkin' about it is getting my all excited!
Maybe I'll finally fix that leaky gasket!

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Post by bradf »

Yeah Wibby, EXCITEMENT!!! I can't talk about the 2nd SS and the DF3 and the thought of RB doin my head in the same sentence without





I'm back. Now where was I? :rolleyes:
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Post by fuzzy »

IMHO, I'd make suspension mods next before going further into power delivery mods. A great suspension is a necessity for 'power delivery!'
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Post by bradf »

I had the fork springs changed to my old XR250 .39 springs B4 I ever rode it. I then set the front and rear ride heights. Then I rode it. So in fact I did do the suspension first.
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Post by canyncarvr »

wanaride wrote: ...new fork springs & shock spring...
Now, that's not revalving..but it IS a modification to the suspension.
**edit**

Well, at least I had the WINDOW open before bradf's response!!

Yeah! What he said!!

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Post by wanaride »

I'm hijacking my own thread here, so I guess that's okay...

I've replaced springs front and back (stiffer for both) and all clickers are in midrange position. I'm a trail rider who MIGHT race someday...will revalving make a big difference for me? What should I do first, DFIII/RB or revalve? If revalving is a good plan, front, back, or both?

Pardon the newbie questions, but hey, I'm still a newbie soaking up knowledge...

Thanks!
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