Smokers Model

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 08:47 am Jan 31 2005

Hmmm, where to start. Bike dose have low time on it, but it is 14 years old. Crank seal is a possibility. Have not ridden bike enought since i've got it to determine if transmission is losing oil. Compression is 125 psi. Low but in spec. I'm sure it could use a fresh topend but don't think it is the source of my problem. But if anyone has a spare piston and rings laying around..... lol

Jason to address your questions.
Smokes when i first start it , alot........ bike trys to load up right away. Safe to say it pretty much smokes from idle to WOT. Been fouling plugs from day one.
Stock slide and needle. 45 pilot, 148 main, clip on second noch from the top. Air screw 1 turn out. We are about 800 feet above sea level.

Has a rad valve in good condition.
Can't ya just feel the love here?

Whibbs that just plain scary.

Post by **Indawoods** » 09:27 am Jan 31 2005

Crank seal should make it go lean... not rich. Right?

Post by **KDXGarage** » 10:02 am Jan 31 2005

I think (UH-OH!) that if the right side crankcase seal were leaking, it would leak at all throttle ranges. If it was in storage for a few years, was it stored with transmission oil in the transmission? If so, maybe it would be less likely to dry out if covered in oil.

As far as smokes a lot when you first start it, mine puts out more smoke when first started. You may want to concentrate on how smoky it is after a 5 minute warm up period.

How long does it take you to foul a plug? When mine was jetted poorly, it would foul one a day. If I went riding, I knew that before I went riding another day, I would first have to put in a new spark plug. I finally got tired of that and bought a few jets and got to testing.

My riding is usually around 800 feet or so. Any idea on the humidity? I would imagine your weather to be not too much different than mine, maybe a touch warmer?? Any general guesstimate on the temperature when it was smoking a lot?

Do you have any additional jets that you can use to test with? If not, I suggest you buy a slection of pilot jets, main jets plus a one size thicker (leaner) needle (R1173N).

I'll pass on some of my observations from when I was trying to get the jetting sorted out. This was when it was low '70's. When I bought the bike it had a #48 pilot jet. It ran better with a #45. I tried a #42, and as soon as I started the bike, it would rev to the moon. I held in the kill engine button, but as soon as I let go, it would rev real high again. This was with a .5 turns out on the air screw. I figured this was too lean, so I went back to a #45.

I adjusted the air screw to where it would reach the highest rev, then went riding, then turned it in 1/8, went riding, turned it in 1/8, went riding, etc. to get a different feel for the various settings. Best performance was a little before it was at the highest rev point (adjust to highest rev, then turn in 1/8 or so).

The stock needle is R1172N. Per Jeff Fredette's suggestion, I switched to an R1173N and it really helped to clear up the 1/8 - 1/4 throttle range.

I settled on clip position #2.

I was running a #150 main. As best I remember, I did a plug chop with a #152 and it was a little rich, so I went down one size from there. It ran great after those adjustments. I adjust for altitude/humidity/temperature from that baseline.

I was running 32:1 Kawasaki 2-stroke oil at the time.

I guess the main thing is to make sure there are no air/oil/coolant leaks, then get some jets and start trying them out, one change at a time. Make notes on how each change performed and you will get it sorted out. It is not real easy to do, but it will be real enjoyable once you get it jetted properly.

Remember that is you have it jetted perfectly in the coldest part of winter, it will get richer and richer as temperatures rise. If you have it jetted perfectly in the summer, it will get leaner and leaner as the temperature drops, so be careful of it getting too lean.

Indawwods: "I THINK" that a leaking left side crankcase seal causes air leaks and leans it out. A leaking right side crankcase seal would allow transmission oil into the cylinder/crankcase, richening it. That is why I mentioned to keep a close eye on the transmission oil level. By the way, big al, make sure you check the oil consistently, meaning check it at the same time interval after riding and letting it cool down. The oil level 2 seconds after you quit riding is not the same as it will be 2 hours after you quit riding and it all settles.

Post by **Indawoods** » 10:27 am Jan 31 2005

Just sitting here thinking....
One thing you should not overlook.... your silencer. If it is full of spooge and needs repacked, this will cause a rich condition. Some may disagree but I have found this to be a fact. I was once a disbeliever when someone told me this but after I switched to a fresh silencers... the rich problem went away.

farmerj · Post by **farmerj** » 11:04 am Jan 31 2005

89kdx200rdr wrote:come on just do the top end

I'm certainly glad (??) that Wibby only showed us the "top end"!

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 11:26 am Jan 31 2005

Indawoods, thanks have looked at that too. I agree it dose make a difference. Cleaned my stock silencer, made no difference, so i got a new one from FRP. An ISDE turbine core. Haven't run the bike much with it on there but it still smokes WAY to much. Wish it had been that easy. Lots to ponder and investigate. Thanks Jason will be looking at all of those things. Crank Seal has really got me wondering. ..........Looks like wibbs is not the only one who traded his SIX pack for a keg.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 11:31 am Jan 31 2005

You're welcome. Good luck on it.

Post by **Mr. Wibbens** » 01:32 pm Jan 31 2005

Nuthin wrong with my topend!?

I've had good response with that photo on Yahoo Personals!

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 04:13 pm Jan 31 2005

" Location: In the shower" TMI wibbs TMI But U gotta wonder who was taking that pic,

Post by **Indawoods** » 04:54 pm Jan 31 2005

All dudes here Wib....

cicone · Post by **cicone** » 05:03 pm Jan 31 2005

bigal007 wrote:" Location: In the shower" TMI wibbs TMI But U gotta wonder who was taking that pic,

Please don't let it be Carver!!!

lankytim · Post by **lankytim** » 06:11 pm Jan 31 2005

Can you tell anything more about the source of the smoke based on its smelll?
For the sake of a few beers' work and a gasket, I'd pull the cylinder off to have a little bo-peep. It sounds like you've checked everything else. There might be a pool of two-stroke oil in the sump left over from, I dunno, maybe riding it in the hot when it was jetted rich or something?
If that's clean and you're pretty sure your jetting is close I'd make a guess that it's sucking transmission oil in through the right seal, or there's some other fuel deilvery problem.
This has just been my brainstorm/semi-educated guess. Good luck working it out.

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 08:20 pm Jan 31 2005

Well I think I have eliminated the crank seal as a source of the problem. The oil level in the site glass has stayed the same since I got the bike. I have not added any, (time for a change though) and i have ridden the bike 6 or 7 times since then. Lankytim I was wondering if that could be a possibility. Could there be that much oil trapped in the sump? Silencer tail pipe is very wet.
I have no problem pulling the top end, been wanting to take a looksee anyway. This bike had zero maintenance prior to my owning it. I was surprised to see that the kips valve was working freely. Man you guys are gonna make me work............... Cicone I think it carver.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 09:44 am Feb 01 2005

What is a sump?

I would imagine your silencer/back wheel/rear fender/toolbag is painted black due to it running so rich.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 11:59 am Feb 01 2005

A spattering of BS input from this end (maybe the top-end..maybe not)...

re: 'To tell you the truth Al... I have never heard of a KDX fouling a plug.'

That's quite the sheltered life!

Shirley, you must be joking!

Happens all the time. Generally due to an improperly jetted machine.

Generally speaking, one side of the crank will suck air (LH), the other will suck oil (RH). If you're sucking enough oil to make a noticeable smoke difference, you will see a change in trans oil levels. Well..that is if you check it at all..and you did. Like LT said...the smell would be a tell-tale, too.

After a point the number of miles/hours on any machine isn't as important as the number of years it's been around. An '04 with 600 miles on it is not the same thing as a '91 with the same 600 miles. Time is not your friend in that regard. Seals get hard, fuel and oil turns to goo etc. etc.

120psi is pretty low. May be another age issue. Rings may well be stuck.

'Sump' I suppose is a reference to the crankcase area..under the piston. It's not a sump, but understood just the same. Yes..fuel/oil (premix) can pool there for a variety of reasons. You shouldn't have TRANS oil in there. Any such pooling isn't something that will be a problem for an extended period of time. Airflow thru the area and agitation of the spinning parts will disperse it fairly quickly.

When you get the cylinder off, let us know what condition the rings are in. They should be springy and freely moving NOT stuck in the piston lands as if they were glued.

Here's a btw..If you get a set of rings with the wavy little ring insert that is supposed to fit UNDER the ring? ...leave it out on re-assy.

As long as the cylinder is off, might as well take the carb down to metal parts..soak it in some Berryman's.

And...what's all this malignment of my good name (thass'a joke, son!)? Besides, it seems all the references to Mr. W. are moot what with the current picture of him (?) in a SKIRT for crine out loud! And the location is still 'in the shower?' Face it. Mr. W. is not well. He has traded time riding for time spent taking pictures of his nekkid self and posting them for the world to see. That's so sad......

Yeah, I could have taken the pic..but I would've needed a blindfold and a telephoto lens the size of a semi truck! Well, that a whole lot of $$ I suppose....

Post by **Indawoods** » 12:31 pm Feb 01 2005

canyncarvr wrote:
re: 'To tell you the truth Al... I have never heard of a KDX fouling a plug.'

That's quite the sheltered life!

Shirley, you must be joking!

Happens all the time. Generally due to an improperly jetted machine.

Hmmmm.... all the KDX's I have encountered have been rich.... but didn't foul plugs.... not joking... sheltered? MMMMmmmmmaybe... why?

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 01:11 pm Feb 01 2005

ok carver Thanks for the input. All is appreciated and will be taken into consideration. Yea everyone knows a sump is what you got left after you chop down a tree. ..........
I'm sure we are ALL glad to hear that you were not the photographer. Skirt huh.

Hmmmmm and he was calling me Bi gal.

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 01:23 pm Feb 01 2005

Indawoods wrote:
canyncarvr wrote:
re: 'To tell you the truth Al... I have never heard of a KDX fouling a plug.'

That's quite the sheltered life!

Shirley, you must be joking!

Happens all the time. Generally due to an improperly jetted machine.

Hmmmm.... all the KDX's I have encountered have been rich.... but didn't foul plugs.... not joking... sheltered? MMMMmmmmmaybe... why?

All those KDX's must have had plugs made out of unobtainium then

-Maurice

Post by **KDXGarage** » 01:29 pm Feb 01 2005

Yeah, my bike used to foul more than a batter with a full count.

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 03:15 pm Feb 01 2005

I brought stock in NGK.

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Smokers Model