Need help diagnosing bound up KIPS valve...

[jaunt]

I've read through a bunch of threads but haven't found anything helpful to this issue. Thanks in advance.

[JimmyB]

Was it working before with the sleeve, some different parts now? Is that valve maybe bottoming out on the OD of the sleeve, not enough clearance now?

[jaunt]

Was it working before with the sleeve, some different parts now? Is that valve maybe bottoming out on the OD of the sleeve, not enough clearance now?

I'm not sure, probably not. I'm just finishing an engine rebuild, my old aluminum kips gears were all sheared.

Someone slapped this thing together in the past and did a terrible job.

[JimmyB]

Not sure if something in these threads might help..

viewtopic.php?t=25428

viewtopic.php?f=115&t=15320

I recall one motor we did with a sleeve must be 20+ years ago so sorry if this is wrong for this KDX , the manufacturer in the included instructions mentioned we had to grind some of the power valve(s) because of clearances.
Maybe contact LASleeve in the morning and ask if there was a note about something like this in the assembly instructions.

You could plastigauge the end of that valve and see if it is making contact with the sleeve, if you leave the center valve out and install that bushing and cap does it still bind?

Once that cap is tightened down, does that valve have any axle(in/out) movement?
Do you have any different center valve to try, a spare cylinder? Maybe install the entire kips set up in another cylinder and see if it binds up also??

Are those blind holes for the front cap, can the bolts contact the kips rod?

[jaunt]

Not sure if something in these threads might help..

viewtopic.php?t=25428

viewtopic.php?f=115&t=15320

I recall one motor we did with a sleeve must be 20+ years ago so sorry if this is wrong for this KDX , the manufacturer in the included instructions mentioned we had to grind some of the power valve(s) because of clearances.
Maybe contact LASleeve in the morning and ask if there was a note about something like this in the assembly instructions.

You could plastigauge the end of that valve and see if it is making contact with the sleeve, if you leave the center valve out and install that bushing and cap does it still bind?

Once that cap is tightened down, does that valve have any axle(in/out) movement?
Do you have any different center valve to try, a spare cylinder? Maybe install the entire kips set up in another cylinder and see if it binds up also??

Are those blind holes for the front cap, can the bolts contact the kips rod?

I appreciate the feedback. I'm going to tinker with it a little bit tonight. The bolts do not run through the cylinder. That is a great point about the sleeve and I think that is the issue.

I do have a spare non sleeved cylinder at work that I will try out tomorrow.

[John_S]

I looked at the exploded view of the cylinder and kips parts on Partzilla and it you're missing the 92026-1333 spacer that sits inside of the cap. It seems like that spacer would press against the center valve bushing like your finger is doing and only make it worse. But, its gotta be there for a reason and it being named "spacer" sounds promising.
OEM is unavailable.

[John_S]

The piece at the top of this picture is the spacer (from the looks of it) on the exploded parts view from Partzilla. It looks like that would slip over the groove in the shaft coming out the front and keep the shaft from being pushed in too far when you tighten the cap. A quick test I'm thinking is to push on the outer part like you're doing in the video (to make it stick) and then grab that front facing shaft with a pair of pliers lightly, pulling outward and seeing if it will then rotate left and right.

If it works you could take a regular washer that fits into that groove and then make it a 3/4 washer with a grinder to match the OEM spacer. It won't be fun getting the right thickness and OD but hopefully you'll be back on the trail soon.

Screenshot 2024-01-22 132126.png (244.26 KiB) Viewed 1298 times

[jaunt]

The piece at the top of this picture is the spacer (from the looks of it) on the exploded parts view from Partzilla. It looks like that would slip over the groove in the shaft coming out the front and keep the shaft from being pushed in too far when you tighten the cap. A quick test I'm thinking is to push on the outer part like you're doing in the video (to make it stick) and then grab that front facing shaft with a pair of pliers lightly, pulling outward and seeing if it will then rotate left and right.

If it works you could take a regular washer that fits into that groove and then make it a 3/4 washer with a grinder to match the OEM spacer. It won't be fun getting the right thickness and OD but hopefully you'll be back on the trail soon.

Screenshot 2024-01-22 132126.png

Great info, that clip was missing when I took it apart.

[JimmyB]

Jaunt with the KIPS assembly installed can you look inside the cylinder from the bottom at that center valve and slowly tighten those 2 cover screws and see what might be causing it to bind? If you leave the center valve out and install that bushing and cap does it still bind the rod from moving, if not I think this would eliminate those parts. Maybe remove the other valves and the rod and install just the front valve assembly without the cap and see if you can turn the valve by hand when pressing on that outer bushing again like you were doing in the video, if it binds up again I would try a very thin layer of grease/machinist dye or even masking tape on the front end of that valve, install it again with the bushing and turn that valve to see if the it is bottoming out or contacting something.

[jaunt]

Jaunt with the KIPS assembly installed can you look inside the cylinder from the bottom at that center valve and slowly tighten those 2 cover screws and see what might be causing it to bind? If you leave the center valve out and install that bushing and cap does it still bind the rod from moving, if not I think this would eliminate those parts. Maybe remove the other valves and the rod and install just the front valve assembly without the cap and see if you can turn the valve by hand when pressing on that outer bushing again like you were doing in the video, if it binds up again I would try a very thin layer of grease/machinist dye or even masking tape on the front end of that valve, install it again with the bushing and turn that valve to see if the it is bottoming out or contacting something.

I swapped my kips stuff into the spare cylinder (plated) I had with low expectations and bam everything works with no binding! What a relief... at least I have a way forward now. I'm going to take the plated cylinder to the machine shop tomorrow and see if its ok to run or needs a replate. If it needs a replate I may just try to clearance the steel sleeve in my current cylinder. I'm not sure if I can stomach another $450 on this bike.

I appreciate the brainstorming help!

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[jaunt]

Update, even after clearancing the sleeve a bit I can't get it to work. I'll be sending my other cylinder to Power Seal for a replate, very fair price at $250. LA Sleeve wants $500.

[JimmyB]

Update, even after clearancing the sleeve a bit I can't get it to work. I'll be sending my other cylinder to Power Seal for a replate, very fair price at $250. LA Sleeve wants $500.

jaunt could you coat the valve in machinist dye, might be able to use a light color spray paint also, install just that valve with the bushing and rotate it while pushing in as you did to bind it, maybe you could see if some of the dye(paint) wears off at the contact point??

[bufftester]

IN the photos above I assume the sleeved cylinder is the lower one? Looks to be wear on the back side of the sleeve in about the area that the center valve would be rotating. Also looks like the wall thickness at the point is different between the Upper (Plated?) and lower sleeved cylinders. That lower one also looks like it may have some burrs along the cutout, and the shape of that port isn't the same between the two. The machinist dye trick that JimmyB suggested should tell you a lot.

[jaunt]

Update, even after clearancing the sleeve a bit I can't get it to work. I'll be sending my other cylinder to Power Seal for a replate, very fair price at $250. LA Sleeve wants $500.

jaunt could you coat the valve in machinist dye, might be able to use a light color spray paint also, install just that valve with the bushing and rotate it while pushing in as you did to bind it, maybe you could see if some of the dye(paint) wears off at the contact point??

Yeah maybe, my other cylinder is already on it's way to PowerSeal, I'm done messing with that steel lined cylinder!