Suspension...Where to Start?

[claybo]

Up until now, I've somewhat neglected my focus on suspension...with 3 other riders in the family it's hard to find time for all the bikes. Anyway, we're getting back into racing OCCRA (OK Cross Country Racing Association) and I'm wanting to get a bit faster on my KDX 220. We raced our first race this past weekend. I'm no expert rider by any means, but man...I've come to realize this suspension is not as good as some of these other guys who can fly around turns way faster than I'm comfortable with with my current setup. (realizing my bike is also about 10-20 years older than most of theirs as well).

My question is where do I start? I've done basically nothing to the suspension (except lower the preload), and I'm pretty sure it's all stock.

What is the first thing you guys would change or check? I have limited time, so I'd like to get the most bang for my buck first then work out the small things later. I'm probably 145 with gear on, so I'm a pretty light rider. Different rear shock spring? Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks everyone.

[KDXGarage]

Lighter shock spring, perhaps a touch stiffer fork springs

Fresh oil, seals and bushings for both ends

[bufftester]

+1 ^ Spring it to your riding weight, fresh oil, new seals. Best money you'll spend on the bike.

[KDXGarage]

One has to get the suspension freshened up just so it will work like new. AFTER it is in proper mechanical order, THEN one can tune it.

In other words, don't spend money on springs, then ride on worn out forks and shocks and try to get a proper evaluation.

[claybo]

Thanks guys. I definitely want to freshen it up. Any thoughts on doing it myself? Seems like a lot of work, am I wrong? I asked a local guy who does suspensions for a quote and this is what he gave me:

Fork Service
Fork Service on
Bike

1 155.00 155.00

Shock Service on
Bike

1 155.00 155.00

SK SPR
63.4x60.6x270
4.4kg

1 129.99 SRSP
622844

129.99T

Inner Fork
Bushings

1 19.99 FMBI
43201 P

19.99T

Outer Fork
Bushings

1 34.99 FMBO
43122 P

34.99T

Fork Seals 1 39.99 FKOS 43
P

39.99T

Dust Seals 1 39.99 FKDS 43
P

39.99T
Fork Oil 5W 1 13.50 13.50T
Shock Low
Friction Oil Seal
- 14

1 9.99 SKOS 14 9.99T

Shock Low
Friction Dust
Seal - 14

1 6.99 SKDS 14 6.99T

Shock Shaft
Bushing - 14

1 9.99 SMSB
1415

9.99T

Bottom-Out Bumper
- 14

1 39.99 SKBO
144255

39.99T
Shock OIl 3W 1 17.99 17.99T

SUBTOTAL 673.40
TAX (8.75%) 31.79
DISCOUNT 18% -121.21

Does this seem like everything I would need done (assuming something isn't damaged and needs replacing)? And does pricing seem reasonable?

Thanks again for your help.

[bufftester]

What's your competency level on working on your bike? Forks are very simple to change springs, oil, bushings, seals. Only requires a couple of tools that are fairly cheap (fork seal driver, seal bullet, oil height guage) and all can be worked around if you do a little research. Rear shock is a bit more involved, but not overly difficult.

As for your quote, looks pretty complete, other than inspecting the air bladder and nitrogen recharge. Prices seem reasonable for a shop.

[KDXGarage]

If you have more money than time, then that is not horrible I guess. It makes me glad to know I can do my own suspension work.

.44 in front and 4.4 in rear is not going to work for you.

The shock seal head is a peened over steel unit. If that guy has ever done one and does not give away his time for free, then a new seal head is the way to go.

$80 for oil seals and dust seals?

I'll quit bitching now. :-)

[doakley]

Ha ha! Depends on how serious you are about your racing I think, and of course your wallet! Most of us do not have the ability, tools, etc. to do the rear shock properly. I'd recommend calling Jeff Fredette and discussing your shock with him. He does his own custom modification which is similar to a Gold Valve that really makes the shock nice. You should be able to do the front forks yourself with a good service manual (you DO have one, right?).
This should give you good suspension to let you know if racing is for you. If it is, especially HS racing, you might decide to get a newer bike. Or if you're a crazy Kawi green at the heart guy like me (and many of us here) you'll spend a lot of money putting KX forks on the front. This will make a huge difference, especially in HS which tend to be higher speed events. Just my $.02. Good luck!

[claybo]

Thanks for all your input. Great info here and this is why I love this site. Now the wheels in my head are spinning even more. After looking at my Cyclepedia Manual, I think I could do at least the front. I'll see if I can call Jeff Fredette and see what he could do on the rear tomorrow. I plugged my info into the racetech site and it recommended .37 front springs (stock are .35, so is that close enough?) and a 4.4 rear spring. KDXGarage are you saying the 4.4 won't work for me? What would your recommendation be?

I think I'll get the suspension set up and do this season on the KDX and go from there. I love the KDX and would really like to be competitive on it within reason (I know I'll never be up there with the big dogs in Pro Class).

Once I come up with an official plan, I may post a list of supplies/tools/parts for your recommendations. I hate getting halfway through a project, then waiting on more parts that I didn't think I'd need. I'd rather spend a few extra bucks up front for all the possible things I need.

As always, you guys rock. Long live the KDX

[KDXGarage]

If you are considering doing it yourself, I would be glad to give you some tips. I do ramble on, so be aware.

Between the front and rear, the rear is harder and it requires more tools to do it without a lot of cussing and fussing.

I guess spring rate suggestions have become a matter of faith, so I preach a different style than some. The Race Tech calculator is sometimes not so accurate for some models. Also, sorry to preach against what Jeff Fredette's website says, but those numbers are off in my opinion. How fast of a racer are you? I know you are not a grandpa following the grandchild on an electric 50, but I know you are not sending in for your pro card in tomorrow's mail.

Get on a scale holding all your riding gear, water backpack, extra tools, etc. Know your true weight before buying springs.

My bitching on Race Tech is I looked up 2002 KDX200, GNCC, C level rider over 45, standard tank, etc. at 135 pounds rider weight without gear (who the hell is riding nekkid on these calculators!?!). They show 0.33. I put you on a 2021 YX250X with the same specs (and it is about 15 pounds lighter gassed up). Rate for your new scooter?? 0.37. Now how does the same guy get on a lighter bike doing the same thing and go up 0.04 on rate? :-)

I would think 0.37 or 0.38 and 4.6. Race Tech sells 0.42 as their lightest rate. That is too stiff for you. Someone, somewhere may have some 1996 - 1997 OEM Honda XR400R springs to sell you (0.38). As a last resort, you can keep what you have or pay the big bucks for Cannon Racecraft. I already looked on eBay for old stock lighter rate RT springs and used Honda springs to no avail.

On the shock spring, see if someone here on a 1989 - 1994 KDX200 with the 4.6 is a bit heavier and could use your stock 1995+ 5.0 rate shock spring.

If you decide to mail the shock to Jeff to let him do the rebuild, buy the FRP Offroad fork tool from him. I assume he can throw it in the box and not charge additional shipping for it. I have it and the OEM tool. His tool is great for holding the cartridge still while loosening or tightening the base valve assembly. It is one thing to get the base valve out, but another to hold the cartridge steady to tighten it to the torque value in the manual.

Here is a fork rebuild kit. The parts are not the best ever, but at that price it is a hell of a deal.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pivot-Works-Fo ... SwuN5f1J~T

5 weight fork oil, Kawasaki sells KYB original oil or you can get Maxima, Bel-ray, Silkolene, etc. Whatever you get is going to be a lot better than the RURNT (yes, RURNT) oil you pull out of there.

Wear safety glasses and rubber (nitrile) gloves. No need to let oil soak into your body.

[doakley]

You’ve just about reached KDX Garage sponsorship level! Listen to the man!
I’m curious too, what class do you race?

[dedgery207]

Closely following this thread. I sent my cylinder off to Millenium and the rear shock is next on the list to refurbish. Got a quote from Factory Connection for $260 to rebuild my shock. I would like to do it myself to offset the cost of a new spring as I weight 230lbs. I watched a couple of the videos posted in another thread and it seems doable for me. I am wondering what special tooling I may need for a sock rebuild and what parts I should pre-buy so I can do the disassembly and reassembly all at once?

[claybo]

You’ve just about reached KDX Garage sponsorship level! Listen to the man!
I’m curious too, what class do you race?

Does that mean I get one of those cool KDXRIDER.NET fender stickers?? HAHA Seriously though he IS the man. I called Fredette today and he recommended a 4.6 rear spring just like KDX Garage. I'll probably send him the rear to be redone. He has the springs in stock. Anyone know what the turnaround typically is? I forgot to ask and it was the end of business hours, so I didn't want to call back.

I race B Class in the "Sportsman" class. Basically it is a step above Beginner. That's one thing I like about OCCRA. They have a class for everyone from vintage bikes to beginners all the way up to Pro Expert, and if you are too fast for a skill based class, they'll bump you up to the next class. I think I finished 14th out of 26 in the last race. Not bad, but not great either. I feel like I could definitely go quite a bit faster with a more comfortable suspension.

[claybo]

Alright I think I've got my "grocery list"

Fork Rebuild Kit that KDX Garage listed above
Kayaba KYB 01M Fork Oil 32 oz
Fork Seal Driver - 43 mm
Fork Tool...Is this what you were referring to KDX Garage?
.37 or .38 kg Springs...If I can find them. I may call RaceTech tomorrow to see if they've got some hiding in the attic they forgot about or something.

Is this all I should need for the front?

[KDXGarage]

doakley, HA! Good one. :-)

dedgery207, thanks for letting me know that it was $260. Maybe I will get back into it one day.
You may want to call around and besure you have someone to charge the shock with nitrogen after you rebuild it. Not every place has a proper loss-less chuck. Those that do might not charge a shock they didn't rebuild. Ask around before you get started. If you are clear to proceed, I used to offer a parts kit for sale. I have misplaced the seal heads and pulled my ad. I am not sure of your time frame, but I am going to just order some more seal heads and offer the parts kit again [EDIT: the seal heads are ordered]. (seal head, nut, bumper, piston band, piston o-ring and bladder). E-mail me if you are. Thanks. Please start a new thread with your specifics. I am curious on your weight and spring rate. I will blabber on and disrupt claybo's thread. No need for that.

claybo, I am NOT the man. :-)
Ask Julien D (site owner) about stickers. He used to have some.
Someone may have a 4.6 to sell. Post a wanted ad.
On that link for the parts, it has been a few years, but I ordered a few times from oem cycle sales place. All orders went well.
https://www.partzilla.com/product/kawasaki/44091-0004
I guess they are putting liquid platinum in it now! The price has gone up since I bought it a while back. See how much Honda oil is. I know. Blasphemy! Pro HP or Showa. Also, Maxima is around the same viscosity.
http://peterverdone.com/archive/files/s ... 20oils.pdf
Look around on here and elsewhere for PVC fork seal driver. I've paid big money for my RT drivers, but it would be a tough pill to swallow just to do one set of forks with a "real" driver.
That FRP tool is the one I was referring to.
Good idea to call and ask RT about the springs.

A 14 mm hex tool (socket or hex key) will be needed on the bottom.

I think the top is 30 mm. Let the air out first!

A plastic Zip-loc bag cut to use as a seal bullet. Use fork oil to lube seals and bushings before installation. Use an old seal / bushings to help start the new one into place.

[claybo]

A little update on this project:

I called RaceTech trying to find some .38 front springs. First number I called, I finally got ahold of someone, but their phone was cutting out so bad I couldn't even explain what I was needing. Tried a different extension...mailbox full. One more extension and got a VM. Left a voicemail, but no call back as of yet...Not too thrilled with their service so far.

I went ahead and removed the shock. My Cyclepedia manual basically said "remove the shock from the right side of the frame". I call bologna on that. There was no room to remove the shock through the right side (I was afraid to force it and damage the shock). I ended up removing by removing the subframe and airbox and pulling it out the top.

KDX Garage was extremely helpful and sent me a link to someone selling a rear spring I needed, but no adapter collar. I was going to call RT today to see if I could find the correct collar, but the spring was sold when I checked this morning. I'm running a little low on time to get this going before the race on 4/10 in Arkansas, so I decided just to ship it to Fredette and have him rebuild and put a 4.6 on it. (When I talked to him this morning, he said he has the supplies for about 15 of these shocks in stock, so off it went...It's only money, right? ). Fingers crossed I get it back in time for the next race.

Meanwhile, I was talking to a buddy and he knows a local guy that does suspension work and recommended him. Turns out he works for Cannon Racecraft (I had no idea they were local here in OKC). I called him over the weekend, but haven't heard back. Hopefully, if I hear back, I'll have some luck with some .38 springs.

In the meantime, I'll have fun playing Tetris in my one car garage (with all my tools and other junk) with this KDX with no rear shock to make room to work on the kids' bikes. If I would have had more forethought I would have taken it to my in-laws where there is more room for it to sit out of the way

[KDXGarage]

Good going. I think someone else said that manual said to take out the right side. I am not sure how.