Electrical issues
- KanuckKDX
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Electrical issues
My mechanic helper decided to try and get my headlight and taillight working. Here's my story.
The headlight is stock.
The tail light is an LED item that draws very little and I installed it myself. The system ran fine for a year. Last fall it had some ugly collsions with the ground and falls in puddles, although we never sucked water or mud into the carb. The lights went out.
This is what he told me he did now.
He bypassed the regulator and the headlight worked and then burnt out the filament. (no surprise there.) Do I really need to buy a new $30CAD bulb?
The tailight still never came on when he bypassed the regulator. I doubt it is responsible for what may be a regulator failure but he wonders. I could be wrong. I am no rocket scientist but you know that since I ride a dirt bike.
Do I need to replace the regulator since bypassing it put power to the headlight? Is there some way to test my regulator?
He has checked wires and continuity except in the tailight.
Any other suggestions? Is my low wattage LED tailight any issue?
Ski, you know all about this stuff. Where would you start?
Thanks all. Tedd
The headlight is stock.
The tail light is an LED item that draws very little and I installed it myself. The system ran fine for a year. Last fall it had some ugly collsions with the ground and falls in puddles, although we never sucked water or mud into the carb. The lights went out.
This is what he told me he did now.
He bypassed the regulator and the headlight worked and then burnt out the filament. (no surprise there.) Do I really need to buy a new $30CAD bulb?
The tailight still never came on when he bypassed the regulator. I doubt it is responsible for what may be a regulator failure but he wonders. I could be wrong. I am no rocket scientist but you know that since I ride a dirt bike.
Do I need to replace the regulator since bypassing it put power to the headlight? Is there some way to test my regulator?
He has checked wires and continuity except in the tailight.
Any other suggestions? Is my low wattage LED tailight any issue?
Ski, you know all about this stuff. Where would you start?
Thanks all. Tedd
KanuckKDX
'01 YZ426F son's
'02 XR400 still for sale
'04 KTM 450exc it's all about the e-start
'01 YZ426F son's
'02 XR400 still for sale
'04 KTM 450exc it's all about the e-start
- m0rie
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Sounds like your regulator is bad and possibly the led tail light as well. I'd replace just the regulator to start with and test the tail light with a known good substitute.
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
2007 TTR-50E
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- Colorado Mike
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- canyncarvr
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re: bypassed the regulator.
Likely he bypassed the switch in the process. Did he?
Is there power to the switch (yellow wire)?
Does the switch pass power (to the red wire)?
Yes, I read the 'he has tested' part. Still, answers to the above two questions would be good to have.
Unless he did considerable jerry-rigging, he likely did not power the taillight when he bypassed the regulator.
A more specific (and correct) explanation of what he did is needed before there can be anything but guesses as to what's wrong.
How 'bout it?
Oh...any checking of the system with a meter will require you to be looking for AC, not DC. You knew that, right?
re: Do I really need to buy...
No. You don't. There are other choices that cost much less (like $5 or so). It won't be the same wattage..but what's 5W amongst friends. Better to be testing things with a $5 bulb than a $30 bulb, 'eh?
Likely he bypassed the switch in the process. Did he?
Is there power to the switch (yellow wire)?
Does the switch pass power (to the red wire)?
Yes, I read the 'he has tested' part. Still, answers to the above two questions would be good to have.
Unless he did considerable jerry-rigging, he likely did not power the taillight when he bypassed the regulator.
A more specific (and correct) explanation of what he did is needed before there can be anything but guesses as to what's wrong.
How 'bout it?
Oh...any checking of the system with a meter will require you to be looking for AC, not DC. You knew that, right?
re: Do I really need to buy...
No. You don't. There are other choices that cost much less (like $5 or so). It won't be the same wattage..but what's 5W amongst friends. Better to be testing things with a $5 bulb than a $30 bulb, 'eh?
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- KanuckKDX
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Thanks.
Now that I am home again (just was in Ohio for the first time - what a beautiful place - we were in Amish country and loved the experiences) we will get after it with me there. In fact I used the stock wiring to get power to the tail light. We'll do a few more tests and let you know what I find.
Did you really mean we have to test AC output? I didn't know that. The regulator didn't put out any DC voltage but AC???
Did the '89's have a regulator? If not, can we rig the system to run without a regulator?
Now that I am home again (just was in Ohio for the first time - what a beautiful place - we were in Amish country and loved the experiences) we will get after it with me there. In fact I used the stock wiring to get power to the tail light. We'll do a few more tests and let you know what I find.
Did you really mean we have to test AC output? I didn't know that. The regulator didn't put out any DC voltage but AC???
Did the '89's have a regulator? If not, can we rig the system to run without a regulator?
KanuckKDX
'01 YZ426F son's
'02 XR400 still for sale
'04 KTM 450exc it's all about the e-start
'01 YZ426F son's
'02 XR400 still for sale
'04 KTM 450exc it's all about the e-start
- m0rie
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- canyncarvr
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re: no regulator
So, the system is load critical? The output is designed to run with a particular load?
The load is the regulation?
How idiotic is that?
re: AC
You have a magnetic device rotating around a wire coil. M0rie can state for fact..but I assume there are no diodes/caps filters involved anywhere? In which case, AC is what you get.
Where does the '89' part come in? Kanuck's sig says '92..and he started with 'my bike'...
Considering the post that started this..I don't know what isn't answered for what reason about now:
If he 'bypassed' the regulator, he probably 'bypassed' the tail light, too.
That he blew up the headlight with no regulator is a given (as stated..'no surprise').
Lamps other than OEM at OEM cost are available.
Ski? You know about all this stuff!!! Enlighten we plebes!!
So, the system is load critical? The output is designed to run with a particular load?
The load is the regulation?
How idiotic is that?
re: AC
You have a magnetic device rotating around a wire coil. M0rie can state for fact..but I assume there are no diodes/caps filters involved anywhere? In which case, AC is what you get.
Where does the '89' part come in? Kanuck's sig says '92..and he started with 'my bike'...
Considering the post that started this..I don't know what isn't answered for what reason about now:
If he 'bypassed' the regulator, he probably 'bypassed' the tail light, too.
That he blew up the headlight with no regulator is a given (as stated..'no surprise').
Lamps other than OEM at OEM cost are available.
Ski? You know about all this stuff!!! Enlighten we plebes!!
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- RBD
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- KanuckKDX
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Here's the current plan to get me through the next weekend in the bush and to avoid getting tickets for no lights.
We're going to put in a high wattage bulb - 55 watts at least and run it with no regulator. We're thinking we can suck enough energy to keep it lit without burning up if we have big watts. And if we can draw enough to the front we may keep the rear light going as well without smoking it.
We'll test it tongiht.
So are we already smokin too much stuff or do we have a shot???
We're going to put in a high wattage bulb - 55 watts at least and run it with no regulator. We're thinking we can suck enough energy to keep it lit without burning up if we have big watts. And if we can draw enough to the front we may keep the rear light going as well without smoking it.
We'll test it tongiht.
So are we already smokin too much stuff or do we have a shot???
KanuckKDX
'01 YZ426F son's
'02 XR400 still for sale
'04 KTM 450exc it's all about the e-start
'01 YZ426F son's
'02 XR400 still for sale
'04 KTM 450exc it's all about the e-start
- canyncarvr
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Smokin.
A higher (or lower) wattage bulb will take more (or less) current..but it IS expecting the same voltage.
A 12V bulb that is subjected to unregulated output is going to blow up...doesn't matter if it's 2watts or 50watts.
There is a point where a huge current carrying ability would keep the lighting coil from ever developing a voltage at all...but I doubt 50 watts is it.
Good luck!
A higher (or lower) wattage bulb will take more (or less) current..but it IS expecting the same voltage.
A 12V bulb that is subjected to unregulated output is going to blow up...doesn't matter if it's 2watts or 50watts.
There is a point where a huge current carrying ability would keep the lighting coil from ever developing a voltage at all...but I doubt 50 watts is it.
Good luck!
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- skipro3
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Any voltage regulator will do the job for you if you get the correct voltage rating. They cost about $10 US at just about any RAdio Shack or like-type store.
Otherwise, any 12 volt voltage regulator on eBay from any motorcycle should also work. I think I'm running one from a honda street bike on my bike.
Otherwise, any 12 volt voltage regulator on eBay from any motorcycle should also work. I think I'm running one from a honda street bike on my bike.
Jerry
I'd rather be a smartass like carvr, than a dumbass like.... well, you fill in the blank!
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- KanuckKDX
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Thanks CC and Ski. This is obvious now that you tell me. At least I am going to find a 12 volt regulator and try it.
I would like to know what they did in 89 to run the lamps with no regulator. What else is diiferent in the electrical system to make that work?
I had an 89 and never knew much about it. It was my first bike and I was slow to try and fix it myself, always taking it to a shop. Now I have too little time to do it all myself since there are three bikes, five cars and trailers and golf and riding and fishing and it's spring and we are going out for the first time next weekend for four days. Work interferes with life.
Tedd
I would like to know what they did in 89 to run the lamps with no regulator. What else is diiferent in the electrical system to make that work?
I had an 89 and never knew much about it. It was my first bike and I was slow to try and fix it myself, always taking it to a shop. Now I have too little time to do it all myself since there are three bikes, five cars and trailers and golf and riding and fishing and it's spring and we are going out for the first time next weekend for four days. Work interferes with life.
Tedd
KanuckKDX
'01 YZ426F son's
'02 XR400 still for sale
'04 KTM 450exc it's all about the e-start
'01 YZ426F son's
'02 XR400 still for sale
'04 KTM 450exc it's all about the e-start
- Colorado Mike
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What did they do? They made a system that treats your headlight like a flash bulb. You need a regulator. I had an unregulated '82. If I wanted a new headlight bulb, all I had to do was redline the motor. POP! most guys put regulators on them, but I just used the sockets to store dead bulbs.KanuckKDX wrote: I would like to know what they did in 89 to run the lamps with no regulator. What else is diiferent in the electrical system to make that work?
Mike
Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid.
'04 KDX220
Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid.
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- canyncarvr
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What they did was 'match' the load to the output.
As stated...that doesn't work for diddle. The voltage is still going to vary with RPM, but about the time one element goes out anywhere, the one that's left (for a little while) is going to feel the resultant increase in power..then IT will blow up, too.
re: storage
Did you carry an extra dead bulb in your tool kit as a spare?
As stated...that doesn't work for diddle. The voltage is still going to vary with RPM, but about the time one element goes out anywhere, the one that's left (for a little while) is going to feel the resultant increase in power..then IT will blow up, too.
re: storage
Did you carry an extra dead bulb in your tool kit as a spare?
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- KanuckKDX
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So now I have picked up the bike, looked at the circuits and figured out what he did. Now I understand how the system works, at least a little and I know how I confused you all.
I still don't get the DC/AC thing since I have automotive bulbs in the thing. But I won't lose any sleep. And I won't be putting a multimeter on it to test.
We tested the switch with an Ohm meter and of course the switch seemed to work. But I wasn't very happy beleiveing the regulator was the problem once I saw what it was doing.
We took the switch out of the circuit and the regulator, and smoked the filament. So I put the regulator back in the system and left the switch out and lit up both bulbs. So now I just have to get a new lamp for the back, put it all together and I am happy.
I will pull the swich apart and clean it up and try it even though I don't need it. It's there so I like it to work.
Thanks for putting up with my ignorance. I now understand what I don't know about this circuit. I was comparing it to basic DC circuits I work with and thought the regulator was in series with the bulbs. Now I think it's parallel. But I may have this wrong still.
I still don't get the DC/AC thing since I have automotive bulbs in the thing. But I won't lose any sleep. And I won't be putting a multimeter on it to test.
We tested the switch with an Ohm meter and of course the switch seemed to work. But I wasn't very happy beleiveing the regulator was the problem once I saw what it was doing.
We took the switch out of the circuit and the regulator, and smoked the filament. So I put the regulator back in the system and left the switch out and lit up both bulbs. So now I just have to get a new lamp for the back, put it all together and I am happy.
I will pull the swich apart and clean it up and try it even though I don't need it. It's there so I like it to work.
Thanks for putting up with my ignorance. I now understand what I don't know about this circuit. I was comparing it to basic DC circuits I work with and thought the regulator was in series with the bulbs. Now I think it's parallel. But I may have this wrong still.
KanuckKDX
'01 YZ426F son's
'02 XR400 still for sale
'04 KTM 450exc it's all about the e-start
'01 YZ426F son's
'02 XR400 still for sale
'04 KTM 450exc it's all about the e-start
- m0rie
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Generally speaking, simple light bulbs like were using on our bikes don't care if your using AC or DC, just as long as its 12V. Fancy LED lights however are a different story.
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
2007 TTR-50E
- canyncarvr
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They are both parallel (VRs in DC and AC). Well, excepting a loading resistor, which is in series, but it's not so much a regulator as a fixed load or restriction to power.
On the KDX, the regulator is wired parallel (load to ground). It's just that it's conveniently (?) NOT in the circuit when you unhook the red wire going back to what you think is JUST the tail light.
The KDX light coil will put out over 100 volts when it's not regulated.
That'll blow a 12V bulb...AC or DC, 'eh?
On the KDX, the regulator is wired parallel (load to ground). It's just that it's conveniently (?) NOT in the circuit when you unhook the red wire going back to what you think is JUST the tail light.
The KDX light coil will put out over 100 volts when it's not regulated.
That'll blow a 12V bulb...AC or DC, 'eh?
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