Electrex discontinuing kdx 200 coils

Got questions? We got answers....
Post Reply
cicone
Member
Posts: 78
Joined: 05:58 pm Nov 16 2004
Country:
Location: North Florida

Electrex discontinuing kdx 200 coils

Post by cicone »

Ritzo informed me that Electrex will be discontinuing kdx 200 coils until further notice. He is waiting on the prototypes with new windings for evaluation. They have none in stock, but Moose is marketing them. Fredette told me yesterday that he has two coils for return that got 6 and 3 months use before going bad. Darren, at Electrex told me to try Dennis Kirk for replacement(Moose/Electrex)and I asked for their technical department. Their return rate for these coils (under the one year warranty) is appoximately 20%---maybe a little higher---the tech was shocked when he looked it up. The Kawasaki coils are known to last 10 or more years---mine lasted 14. Sorry guys, but a failure rate of 1 in 5 is just too high. I know this sucks. Feel free to flame me. Don't know if I'm directly responsible or just the straw that broke the camel's back. Starts to make me think that $250 for a Kawi replacement beats the hell out of $90 a year for life.
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

WOW! I am very glad you researched it. Thank you. I was wondering about those. I had read months ago that they were discontinued by Electrex.

Have you checked with http://www.rickystator.com? I know he had both types of coils for the '83 - '88 KDX200's, as best I remember. I even saw where he had them on eBay.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
canyncarvr
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6943
Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
Country: US
Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson

Post by canyncarvr »

Some clarification, please.

You are referring to the exciter coil I presume?

Electrex is also not making the light coil any more.

HOW MUCH FROM KAWI???? $250????

Dang!!

Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis

bike profile: !clicky!
cicone
Member
Posts: 78
Joined: 05:58 pm Nov 16 2004
Country:
Location: North Florida

Post by cicone »

carvr---sorry about the lack of specificity. They have discontinued the stator coil part # C-31. Doubt the lighting coils are at issue. In a possible break through---Ricky Stator has coils for $39(vs. $99 for the C31 or $250 for the Kawasaki complete stator assembly ---which includes the plate, lighting and stator coil, and wiring)which could fit the kdx 200. They market them for the LT 250 & LT 500 Quadracer. Electrex was selling the C-31 as a replacement for those models, so I'm checking the specifics to see if they'll do the trick. If so, I'll take three of 'em.
cicone
Member
Posts: 78
Joined: 05:58 pm Nov 16 2004
Country:
Location: North Florida

Post by cicone »

Ordered a new stator coil from Ricky Stator. They used to sell the Electrex coils, but they intimated that reliability was an issue and they started making their own. Let's see if they have it down a little better.
User avatar
canyncarvr
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6943
Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
Country: US
Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson

Post by canyncarvr »

cicone wrote: Doubt the lighting coils are at issue.
No, that is the point. They are discontinuing both.

Now for the disclaimer....

I've heard that Electrex is discontinuing the lighting coil for the kdx. I've heard that from mulitiple people, some of them should know what they are talking about (dealers and such). I have not talked to 'Mr. Electrex' myself and have not obtained a signed notorized statement to that effect.

Rather verbose, but there is a reason for it. I have spent a good deal of time talking to different bearing distributors regarding a number of bearings for the kdx. Regarding the steering stem bearings I was told by every one of them I talked to that they could get the bottom bearing but NOT with the seal. So, I got mine from kawi.

I relayed that information in a post that BJH had started. BJ told me he'd found the bottom bearing...WITH the seal....and it's a Koyo bearing (oem) to boot. Now...how hard could that have been to find that information? Evidently too damn hard...cuz NO one seemed to be able to figure it out when I asked 'em.

So...'Consider the source' I guess. I don't like being wrong. Doesn't bother me personally so much as I don't want to mislead or misinform anybody else. If I have an opinion, I'll tell you that's what it is.

b-lah b-lah etc. Anywho....

I recall a kdx'er having talked to Ricky Stator about the electrex coils and their proclivity toward failure and oddities (timing issues causing kickback and such). His comment was along the line of, 'They're finding out how picky those are, 'eh?' OK...maybe not the 'eh' part....

Aha...so the $250 is for the stator. That makes a bit more sense. Of course, it would come with an underwatted lighting coil.... :(

Keep us posted.
Last edited by canyncarvr on 06:37 pm Jan 11 2005, edited 1 time in total.

Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis

bike profile: !clicky!
johnnymotocros
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 08:19 pm Jan 02 2005
Country:
Location: Puerto Rico

Post by johnnymotocros »

I could not find a stator-coil aftermarket-replacement for my 98` 220, so I will be rewinding it myself. I will be rolling it tonight, testing tomorrow.
I will let you know if it works. I had done it before for other bikes and has worked, let`s see if this one works. Wish me luck.
I once had a Suzuki GS700ES that ate alternator coils like crazy, OEM, aftermarket or self wound. Changing regulators did not help either. My best guess ( others has suggested this also ) is a bad flywheel/magnets which is defective but hard to test.

JT
cicone
Member
Posts: 78
Joined: 05:58 pm Nov 16 2004
Country:
Location: North Florida

Post by cicone »

Carvr---I sit corrected. Didn't have a clue about the lighting coils 'cause I ain't got no light on my bike. But I do have a nice number plate instead! Seriously, the guy I talked with at Ricky Stator sounded like he knew his stuff and was tired of doing the Electrex warranty boogie. Hence the making their own coil avenue. He also mentioned that on occasion wires coming off the stator coil have been known to discharge to frame ground and cause problems---I'm thinking the critical area here is where the wire passes under the stator plate and also where they are crimped into position just before the rubber boot that exits the case. I'll check both for any wear upon install, just to be sure. As per usual, will keep you posted. Some useful bit of minutia may be forthcoming from my travails. Also got connected with a guy down in Orlando who has done numerous KDX rehabs. He's going to give me a call tomorrow and I'll see if he may have some insight into the failing stator issue---it would be easy if the Electrex coils were just junk....we'll see. Time for a beer! :partyman:
User avatar
canyncarvr
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6943
Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
Country: US
Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson

Post by canyncarvr »

A thread hijack!!!

re: kdx rehabs

He wouldn't be a good source for KX front-ends perchance? HHhhmmmm?????

JohnnyM: Rewinding an exciter coil? How do you figure the number of layers on one'a those? LOTS of them...and little-bitty-tiny wire, too. Not to mention the mechanical retention required..potted, epoxied, etc. I'd sure be interested in a bit of a write-up about it...maybe some pics?

:cool:

Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis

bike profile: !clicky!
BJH
Supporting Member III
Supporting Member III
Posts: 80
Joined: 11:50 pm Dec 13 2004
Country:
Location: Western North Carolina

Post by BJH »

canyncarvr wrote:A thread hijack!!!

re: kdx rehabs

He wouldn't be a good source for KX front-ends perchance? HHhhmmmm?????
:
Need a KX front end? here is one. I'm not affiliated in any way I just ran across it on EBAY!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... AMEWA%3AIT
________
VFR800
Last edited by BJH on 08:08 am Feb 17 2011, edited 1 time in total.
johnnymotocros
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 08:19 pm Jan 02 2005
Country:
Location: Puerto Rico

Post by johnnymotocros »

The coil "worked". The bike started and runs "fine", except for a "little- problem", the engine runs backwards, :rolleyes: . I guess my 50/50 chance of winding it right worked the other way. Now I know which way is right. I will just swap the wires at the coil to reverse the output polarity and that should do it. Next one will be right the first time. This new one reads 345 ohms, and the spark looks fair. Next one will have a bit more turns for a more solid spark. I will read the volts output and post it for others to use.
I got ready and dressed for a test ride and filled the tank, to find out is not that easy to ride in reverse. :sad: .
I`m not surprised about this, it`s not that uncommon on 2-strokers.
JT
User avatar
canyncarvr
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6943
Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
Country: US
Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson

Post by canyncarvr »

Excuse my ignorance..but if you would share some learnin'....

How does the direction the coil is wound matter? You will get the same pulse (right?) out of the coil regardless, won't you? Now...if the flywheel was going the other way, THAT would do it. But it's not if you kick it in the right direction in the first place.

How does the direction of wrap matter when: 1. It's going to be an AC thing anyway, and 2. Such a direction change isn't going to change the timing from 2mm BTDC to 42mm (or so) BTDC.

I'm not arguing about it. I just don't get it.

KISS, if you would..on the reply. Be kind to my single brain cell (and I don't mean it's not married, either. Well..it's not, but that's not what I mean! ;) )

Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis

bike profile: !clicky!
johnnymotocros
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 08:19 pm Jan 02 2005
Country:
Location: Puerto Rico

Post by johnnymotocros »

Canyncarver,
The answer is simple, an AC voltage source does not matter in polarity if you are not using the AC for triggering or timing. Remember that AC has a positive portion and a negative portion continuously along the wave.
I believe, since the KDX does not use a separate timing generator coil or pulser, they use the actual AC from the igniter coil to generate the timing.
If your AC is not timed with the engine position, the signal can be out of time, in my case, 180o out of phase with the engine. If the spark comes 180 out, the engine will naturally run backwards as everything reverses. The two stroker does not care which way is running, remember that the only diference is the crank running the other way, the piston just goes up and down no matter what.
Let me point out that my engine does not start easily, it kicks the right way around, but in the last stroke/bang it just fires when the piston is in position to back up and starts backwards.
I will post details on how I wound the coil and you will see it`s so very simple. I even tooks pictures and will probably post them.
Let me explain the AC thing one more way, if you are using the positive going AC to trigger the spark, and just happens to be out of phase due to a coil being backwards, the pulse wont occur until 180 degrees later, thus the problem. If you feel the flux force ( magnetism ) from the flywheel, it has force one way ( pole ) in one half or hemisphere, and the other way on the other half. This is 180 one way, 180 the other way, kind of like this :rolleyes:
JT
I hope this helps you out.
User avatar
canyncarvr
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6943
Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
Country: US
Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson

Post by canyncarvr »

180º may apply to the AC wave, but that's not 180º of engine revolution.

Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis

bike profile: !clicky!
johnnymotocros
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 08:19 pm Jan 02 2005
Country:
Location: Puerto Rico

Post by johnnymotocros »

Canyncrvr, Just ask yourself how does the CDI knows when to shoot the spark to the plug, if on the KDX there is no timing device of any kind.
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Post by KDXGarage »

I have seen mention of a pulser coil on other bikes, but not on a KDX. Thanks for mentioning what that part was for.

I have read a couple other people say their bike ran backwards after they worked on it. I would imagine that the 1 or 2 revolutions the crank made the right way when kickstarted were quickly overcome by the 15 or 20 per second when it got cranked.

Thanks again for the explanation.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
User avatar
canyncarvr
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6943
Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
Country: US
Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson

Post by canyncarvr »

Words mean things. For that, I'm sorry....I guess

Who said anything about 'no timing device of any kind' on a kdx?

Did I? Not that I know of.

I cannot begin to imagine how the statement '180º may apply to the AC wave, but that's not 180º of engine revolution.' gets converted to 'no timing device of any kind.'

The 'timing device' used by the kdx actually is the CDI. There is no 'timing' from the generator assy. The magnets move past a coil of wire, a voltage is produced, the CDI is triggered.

BUT the timing of the thing comes from the CDI. There is no advance (or retard) mechanism in the generator assy. So...that means that assy is set to run at whatever maximum advance timing spec is required and the CDI retards it from there.

...the CDI can't advance the spark. Spark can't happen before the trigger.

The CDI accomplishes that basically by using an RC circuit.

I'm sure none of this is at all what your point is.....

I realize that how the coil is wrapped is critical. That's why RickyStator said he was amused at Electrex' faux pas in their attempts to wind an exciter.

It's the references like '180º out' relating to making things '..180º out of phase with the engine' that was the point. The phase of the signal may well be 180º out..but that has nothing to do with spark happening 180º 'out' relative to engine rotation.

I doubt you actually think that...but that is what you said.

Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis

bike profile: !clicky!
johnnymotocros
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 08:19 pm Jan 02 2005
Country:
Location: Puerto Rico

Post by johnnymotocros »

Canyncarvr,
Lets forget about all this 180o thing, please.
The fact is I wound the coil, got the bike fixed, went riding yesterday, had a good time ( fell twice also ). Now lets just "put our behinds in the past", or is it 180o the other way ? :grin: :rolleyes: :wink:
User avatar
skipro3
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 4329
Joined: 11:58 pm Nov 04 2004
Country:
Location: BANNED FOR LIFE!!
Contact:

Post by skipro3 »

Can you elaborate on how you wound the coil; source for the wire, technique, etc? It should come in handy some day!!! (I hope not but ya never know!) Sounds like I could save a few bucks if it ever comes to that. Thanks!!!
Jerry

I'd rather be a smartass like carvr, than a dumbass like.... well, you fill in the blank!
Post Reply