Bearings

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crazybrit
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Bearings

Post by crazybrit »

I need to replace the swingarm and linkage bearings on my new to me 1998 220R (3 were totally seized). While I'm there I'll replace the rear wheel bearings.

I've replaced wheel bearings before several times (get them from a local bearing supply house) but never linkage/swingarm bearings.

I can probably get the linkage bearings locally but are the inner collars and seals generally available? Or is it going to be easier/cheaper to just order a Moose/AllBalls kit.

For the wheel bearings does anyone have the bearing numbers? Do most folks replace with -2RS (rubber sealed both sides)?

Also from looking in the manual there are seperate outer grease seals. Are these a pretty standard item (bearing store) or OEM/kit only?

Thanks
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Post by chris_psmith »

For wheel bearings, I lift the seal off and add more grease, as standard they have a tiny amount on them.
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Post by crazybrit »

>|<>QBB<
chris_psmith wrote:For wheel bearings, I lift the seal off and add more grease, as standard they have a tiny amount on them.
This wasn't the question I asked!! Yes I know I can do this. Yes I know "as standard they only have a tiny amount". The bike is 8 years old. 8 years of no grease. Hence replace.
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Post by Ryan »

its me again. You can get the kit from denniskirk.com. I bought the moose as you know and they seem pretty good quality.
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Post by crazybrit »

>|<>QBB<
Ryan wrote:its me again. You can get the kit from denniskirk.com. I bought the moose as you know and they seem pretty good quality.
Linkage:

Yeah I know but the places I normally order from online say the Moose linkage kit is backordered and I hate Dennis Kirk :)

Mostly this is curiosity as browsing the archives last night I found some references where people said to go to a bearing supply store for the linkage bearings. Also mention of using caged bearings (I believe the PivotWorks and Moose are uncaged). I'll bet I can get a much higher grade of bearing locally but not sure if I'll be able to find the inner sleeve and seals.

Wheel:

Just interested if people use a -2RS to replace. I can get the wheel bearings locally here (though not sure on the grease seals). Worst case I'll have to pull them and take them in if noone has the bearing numbers. If I can't locally source the grease seals I may be better off ordering a Moose rear wheel kit but I have no clue what type of bearing they use.
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Post by canyncarvr »

There are several choices of aftermarket 'kits' other than Moose or Kirk. Might be the same bearings in the end...junk chinkers. Yep..that's what I said. I hope that offended someone. :wink:

BuyKaw.com lists the sizes of the bearings. With that info, any bearing store can get you what you want.

The sleeve specs are also listed. You can darn near get them MADE (maybe SS302) at not a whole lot more cost from OEM replacements.

The dust seals can be had from several suppliers, too...CBR for example (a US company). If they can get them, I'm sure you can, too.

Yes, I use the double sealed bearing (that is what you asked). I've used a single-side sealed in the past. They worked less well than a double sealed of the same type bearing. A good quality wheel bearing (Koyo) will outlast a junk bearing a good 3-4:1. CBR sells them as 'lifetime guaranteed'. No, that doesn't mean they last forever...but when they DO wear out, you can get a replacement set at no charge.

re: caged/uncaged

There is a semantics problem with that. Well...maybe it's my problem.

There is a difference between a caged bearing and a bearing that has its pins retained in the outer shell. A caged bearing won't work in all places due to load conditions. There are a lot fewer rollers in a caged style bearing. The PivotWorks kits come with (mine did anyway) UNcaged UNretained pins. If the rollers are not retained, they are somewhat longer...not having the reduced diameter of the holding pin being subtracted from the possible length.

If you have looked around on this board you have maybe found my write-ups on the lower shock bearing. I am using a double sealed bearing now with the OEM seals machined to fit the wider bearing. It is working so far (well over 1000 miles) much much better than the sloppily made OEM bearing that has NO internal seal whatsoever.

If none of this answers any of what you asked...be sure to let me know.

:razz:

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Post by crazybrit »

canyncarvr, thanks for the reply.

wheel bearings:
I just pushed out the rear wheel bearings and i'll go get 2 new 6004s. I popped the outer seals off each bearing (they were -2RS) and one was badly packed with crud. Odd, as the grease seals look to be fine. I was planning on just reusing the grease seals but this now has me pondering.

linkage:
I spent a while poking thru the archives but didn't find your posts about the lower shock bearing. Whats the thread id? Pics?

Maybe when I go in and get the wheel bearings I'll take in some of the linkage sleeves/seals and see if they can get them. Of course this is starting to sound like a lot of work. Yes, realize caged may not work. Probably better just dealing with the cheap Chinese bearings that Moose and Pivot Works use (read that the AllBalls were even cheaper than PivotWorks) but just being on the ball about regreasing.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Well well....I almost said 6004s...but I couldn't recall for sure if that was correct ....or not, maybe.

Pics of the linkage stuff is in the gallery...in-thread pics.

You use the term 'grease seal'. You are referring to the seal that is placed over the bearing..with the spring loaded inside diameter, right? If it's worth buying bearings for, it's worth buying seals for. I've reused them before..but that's when I used a bearing that wasn't worth buying!! :wink:

Thread? How about 573? :wink:

Or..howabout click here!??

The PivotWorks parts I used have been of a completely different nature than OEM. Instead of two smaller bearings placed at the edges of the hole they were one much wider bearing..no space ('cuz there's only one). Something to keep in mind if you have that bearing 'zerked' and use that inner gap.

The aftermarket swingarm bearings I used are caged. The PW pieces I used in the linkage are NOT, nor are they retained (the pins are longer). That makes them much easier to clean, although you want to remember which pins are going to come out onto the floor when you're cleaning stuff!! Maybe make a note in your service manual how many rollers there are so you won't inadvertently think the bearing is good to go (correct # of rollers) when it's really a matter of new grease taking up the space of the missing roller.

BTW...I don't know if 'crazybrit' has anything to do with your location. If you're on this side of the pond, consider CBR's lifetime bearings!! If overseas, that probably wouldn't work too well.

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Post by crazybrit »

canyncarvr wrote: You use the term 'grease seal'. You are referring to the seal that is placed over the bearing..with the spring loaded inside diameter, right? If it's worth buying bearings for, it's worth buying seals for.
Yes. Thats the term the manual uses. They seem in fine shape but the inside diameter isn't hugging the wheel collar (inserts without dragging on the seal). Not sure what fit is normal for a new seal.

Hmmn. $7.75 each at Ron Ayers. I just went and bought bearings. The cost of these seals makes buying the complete Moose kit seem a smarter idea :-) The bearing house only had seals in 10mm depth. I guess I'll have to call around and see if anyone local has a 5mm.

The PivotWorks parts I used have been of a completely different nature than OEM. Instead of two smaller bearings placed at the edges of the hole they were one much wider bearing..no space ('cuz there's only one).
Yeah my KLR650 is that way.
The aftermarket swingarm bearings I used are caged. The PW pieces I used in the linkage are NOT, nor are they retained (the pins are longer). That makes them much easier to clean, although you want to remember which pins are going to come out onto the floor when you're cleaning stuff!!
I ordered the Moose/AllBalls kit. I'm guessing it's similar. I'll have to wait and see what it looks like. Having not seen it, I'm a little vague on how you would remove the rollers for subsequent cleaning.
BTW...I don't know if 'crazybrit' has anything to do with your location. If you're on this side of the pond, consider CBR's lifetime bearings!! If overseas, that probably wouldn't work too well.
Yes, living in gods chosen country :)

tony
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Post by canyncarvr »

Israel? :shock:

If it's not caged and not retained..the pin rollers just fall out. Like needles in a u-joint. The only thing holding them in place (the sleeve out) is grease (or rust.... or dirt).

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Post by crazybrit »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:Israel? :shock:
LOL. Nope. Good ole U S of A.
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Post by Colorado Mike »

Damn!! I was way off.. was thinking Wisconsin.
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Post by crazybrit »

canyncarvr wrote:
If it's not caged and not retained..the pin rollers just fall out. Like needles in a u-joint. The only thing holding them in place (the sleeve out) is grease (or rust.... or dirt).
Ah. That would indeed make cleaning and repacking fairly easy. Interesting.

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Post by canyncarvr »

FTR....the 'location' part of his ID is new...he put it in AFTER I asked him where in Wisconsin he lived!!

:wink:

So...Call CBR...get the lifetime wheel bearings and seals. Oh...the lifetime part doesn't apply to the seals, just the bearings.

Do you pack the seals, too? I think that's a good idea.

BelRay waterproof grease works well (the blue stuff).

What do you think of a double sealed bearing for the lower shock? Sure works better than what's in there.

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Post by crazybrit »

canyncarvr wrote:FTR....the 'location' part of his ID is new...he put it in AFTER I asked him where in Wisconsin he lived!!
Nah, I claim it's always been there. You've just been drinking too much 2-cycle oil :)
So...Call CBR...get the lifetime wheel bearings. Oh...the lifetime part doesn't apply to the seals, just the bearings.
Already bought new bearings.
Do you pack the seals, too? I think that's a good idea.
BelRay waterproof grease works well (the blue stuff).
I need to go get some waterproof grease for when I do the linkage.
I guess I'll have to ponder whether to get new seals or if the current ones are ok.
If new seals fit over the wheel collar like the linkage seals fit over the linkage collars then I need to go get new ones. If the wheel collar slips through without a lot of resistance I think what I have is ok.
What do you think of a double sealed bearing for the lower shock? Sure works better than what's in there.

Seems like a lot of work :-> I'll see how long the lower shock bearing in the new AllBalls kit lasts. If it's as sad as it sounds I may be trying the same. The one in the currnet shock (8 years w/out replacement was sad sad sad).

t
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Post by canyncarvr »

re: drinking too much...

Well, it is green!



So...Call CBR...get the lifetime wheel bearings. Oh...the lifetime part doesn't apply to the seals, just the bearings.


re: Already bought new bearings.


That wasn't the question I asked... :wink:

I got the 'already bought' part. Has nothing to do with the advisability of getting real bearings AND seals.

The seals do fit 'over' the collar (spacer?), so the collar does 'slip through'. So, maybe you do..but you don't?

I replaced my lower shock bearing every few months. If I waited for eight years, the unitrack knuckle would have long ago been history!

They aren't cheap!

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Post by crazybrit »


I got the 'already bought' part. Has nothing to do with the advisability of getting real bearings AND seals.
Well. I believe I did get _real_ bearings.
The seals do fit 'over' the collar (spacer?), so the collar does 'slip through'. So, maybe you do..but you don't?
Well the only way to tell is to go buy a set ain't it. I'm not paying $7.50 each and I'm not going to buy a complete kit so we'll have to see if I can find some locally.
I replaced my lower shock bearing every few months. If I waited for eight years, the unitrack knuckle would have long ago been history!
Neh, sorry but preventative maintenance is overrated. I think fixing this stuff every 8 YEARS (thanks for the bolding btw) is just fine. Of course it could also be that I just bought the bike (like "used" like):-)

t
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Post by canyncarvr »

I didn't replace mine every few months for preventive maintenance reasons.

Although...neither did you say I did...

I replaced the parts because they were toast.
PM Man wrote:Probably better just dealing with the cheap Chinese bearings that Moose and Pivot Works use (read that the AllBalls were even cheaper than PivotWorks) but just being on the ball about regreasing.
Sounds like preventive maintenance to me...

Although #2...just because you said it's overrated doesn't mean you won't do it!

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Post by Ryan »

>|<>QBB<
crazybrit wrote:>|<>QBB<
Ryan wrote:its me again. You can get the kit from denniskirk.com. I bought the moose as you know and they seem pretty good quality.
Linkage:

Yeah I know but the places I normally order from online say the Moose linkage kit is backordered and I hate Dennis Kirk :)

Mostly this is curiosity as browsing the archives last night I found some references where people said to go to a bearing supply store for the linkage bearings. Also mention of using caged bearings (I believe the PivotWorks and Moose are uncaged). I'll bet I can get a much higher grade of bearing locally but not sure if I'll be able to find the inner sleeve and seals.

Wheel:

Just interested if people use a -2RS to replace. I can get the wheel bearings locally here (though not sure on the grease seals). Worst case I'll have to pull them and take them in if noone has the bearing numbers. If I can't locally source the grease seals I may be better off ordering a Moose rear wheel kit but I have no clue what type of bearing they use.
i hate denniskirk also but i do buy somethings like my chest protector that was $35 off regular price and the bearings.
2001 kdx220

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