kips stuck

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 07:35 pm Jan 09 2005

Hey guy. I need help. I have a 1988 200. Going to send the cylinder out to be replated. I need to strip the head before i send it and i can't get the valves out of the cylinder. Don't want to destroy them or damage the cylinder. Seems like you should be able to simply pull out the shaft and the valves would come right out. Valves will open and close, but shaft stops when the valves are fully open. Every part that will come off is off. Any ideas before i slide hammer the shaft out,
Signed Frustrated in Texas.

rubrdougie · Post by **rubrdougie** » 10:46 pm Jan 09 2005

http://www.bryankimsey.com/dirtbikes/KDX/topend.htm
Hope this helps? try soaking the shafts and valves with a good spray carb cleaner as you remove them. It helps to soften up the spooge that makes everything stick.
Good luck
Doug

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 11:44 pm Jan 09 2005

Spray on No-Heat/Bake Oven Cleaner would also do the trick.

-Maurice

lankytim · Post by **lankytim** » 11:49 pm Jan 09 2005

Is it just the shaft on the right side of the engine (the one with the groove and rubber ring in it)? When I pulled the KIPS down after buying my used bike, the rubber ring had expired and grown gummy and larger so it jammed itself in the sleeve on the way out. I just yanked it, which tore up the o-ring, and replaced it when I put it back together.

There should be nothing stopping the side valve actuator shafts after you've pulled it all to bits, from memory the valves themselves are geared the whole way around - otherwise it might be possible for the cogs to jam if the valve/shaft were put together wrong last time (maybe?).

Mine is a '99, I don't know if it's applicable to an '88, but might help.

By all means, clean it up first and have a look-see. Will the shaft on the left side come out?

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 12:01 am Jan 10 2005

I have a manual for my 91, and its a different animal. This one seems pretty simple, a govenor shaft and 2 valves. just don't want to force it and break something. This ones air cooled BTW. less parts than the water cooled models. Thanks guys if all else fails i'll get a manual.

I will let ya'll (thats a word here in texas) when i do get it apart just in case someone else is up against this prob.

lankytim · Post by **lankytim** » 12:21 am Jan 10 2005

Good luck with it mate.

Say "hi" (or whatever the Texan word for that is, howdy?) to Jeniffer Garner for me next time you see her around, I hear she's from your part of the world. I was in Fort Worth last year very briefly with work and I missed out on seeing her

Post by **KDXGarage** » 12:39 am Jan 10 2005

Lift up slightly on the valves, then pull the rod out, then pull the valves up.

Just for the record, 1986 - 1988 KIPS is different than newer models. No side, idler gear on right, no middle gear, etc.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 11:41 am Jan 10 2005

Just a thought for future use.....

Send your cylinder to ForwardMotion (Gorr) with the KIPS intact. Let him mess with it.

FRP will, too.

That doesn't help a whole lot for interval KIPS service...but if the thing to start with is such a carboned up mess that you can't even SEE what's holding it together, you could give someone else the privilege!

Who is going to do the plating? They ARE going to provide or you ARE going to send the piston with the cylinder, right?

A replate outfit that offers to do the job without having the piston is an outfit I wouldn't be using.

An aside...if you are ever going to consider porting your cylinder, now is the time to do it. You should replate after a port job.

cicone · Post by **cicone** » 11:59 am Jan 10 2005

Excellent advise, Carvr!

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 12:39 pm Jan 10 2005

Well ........... If they ca get it apart so can I

. But if i can't I will consider sending to one of them.
Got a piston. Wisco , and I am sending it to a company called langcourt. http://www.langcourt.com/ They come highly recommended. A shop I use sometimes, a friend and great mechanic uses them all the time for this kind of work.
Would like to port but it is my sons bike and he is kinda new to riding, and besides it is just more money I don't have right now. Looking for a used cylinder to modify and keep as a spare.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 01:11 pm Jan 10 2005

I've good things from Langcourt users.

It'll work out fine.

A large part of the 'let them do it' is, last I checked, it didn't COST any more to do it that way. I never understood that, but maybe the BIG GUYS (FM, FRP and such) get a break. When I was looking into boring/plating I found the price was the same to send it to EG to have it done as it would cost me if I sent it in directly.

But..sending to EG was 'as is'. Sending to the plater was, 'stripped'. So..I'd have to mess with it for nothing!

So, I didn't.

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 01:29 pm Jan 10 2005

Thanks. Really great bunch of guys here. Will contact EG before I do anything else. And a special thanks to Indawood for putting this site together. As I have heard at least one guy here say, ( believe it was an aussie) This is my home away from home. While I'm home,

Hmmm something else to ponder

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 02:34 pm Jan 10 2005

Well....to toss the proberbial fly into thie ointment..something else to consider.

FRP uses USChrome. I think ForwardMotion does, too.

In my gallery are some shots of my USChrome cylinder. The bore looks like it's been used as target practice with a shotgun. 'Porosity' is the term USChrome uses to describe the effect...says it's 'just the way it is'.

But...but....it didn't look like that originally. Kawi (or whomever does their cylinders) didn't put it out that way. I have yet to get any reasonable answer to, 'Why now if not before?' regarding the pits.

USChrome actually defends the condition as a good thing saying it gives oil a neat place to hide out.

My bike runs fine. I don't know that the holeshot pattern is a problem. I know that a local engine builder said he would like to know who did the plating because he wanted to be sure NEVER to use them for his replate needs.

I've not seen a cylinder from Langcourt. Good reports of their work, but I had not heard anything about the hole-y job USChrome put out until I saw my own cylinder, neither!

So...you have some choosin' to do! Certainly verify current pricing before you do anythkng.

Another item of note...it's a fact that both FM and FRP have been at times slow on the turn-around of work through their shops. Unfortunately, what they tell you is going to be the timeframe doesn't necessarily relate to the facts of the matter. My cylinder was supposed to be gone a 'couple weeks.' It was 4x that. Granted, company 'A' (frp in this case) cannot control company 'B' (USChrome). Sometimes things just don't go well...and if it's going to happen to someone, it will likely happen to me.

..that's just the way it is. (s-i-g-h :( )

Anyway...Langcourt may still be the reasonble choice.

dave04kdx · Post by **dave04kdx** » 02:40 pm Jan 10 2005

Ditto what Jason said about lifting the valves up and sliding out the rod. I found it easiest to remove the bushings that sit on top of the power valves first. If mine were real gummed up I sprayed a little wd-40 in the valve bore, rotated and let them sit and soak if needed. Both valves need to be lifted at the same time to clear the teeth on the actuator rod. Its a simple process once you get it apart once.

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 09:20 pm Jan 10 2005

Looks simple. looked at the blow up on Buy kawasaki and it looks like i have everything off that could be holding the govenor rod in. Takes 3 hands to lift and pull on the rod. Something is holding the rod in the cylinder . An oring maybe? I'll keep trying. Don't want to break anything.
Langcourt is the only one my friend and local shop owner uses and he swears by them. They charge 150.00 but i need to send the cylinder stripped down. Said it would take a week.
FPR emailed me today saying he had a rebuilt cylinder for 200 exchange. Need more details though cause when you send a cylinder to langcourt they want you to send the piston too. Replating may still be my best option.
I really want to get my sons bike up and running but i don't want to be hasty.
Hmmmmm Think I'll go back down stairs and try again. Or maybe it time for a cold one.

dave04kdx · Post by **dave04kdx** » 09:31 pm Jan 10 2005

You are right about the o-ring. It is more like a cylinder shaped seal or packing. There is also a regular o ring on the outside of the shaft if I remember right. I would recommend replacing the cylindrical shaped seal/packing. I didn't once on my 86 and it leaked terribly. I had to buy the the part from the dealer when reassembling my 86 and 88. Three different brand gasket kits didn't come with the seal.
Good luck, hope the beer is tasting good.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 09:41 pm Jan 10 2005

I think it is just an o-ring.

Sorry if my instructions were vague. You have to pull both valves up slightly and hold both at the same time, then pull the rod, plate, e-clips, collars, etc. out.

bigal007 · Post by **bigal007** » 10:50 pm Jan 11 2005

Ah the sweet taste of success. Carbon it not your friend. There was so much carbon on the valves that i could not lift them up far enought to get the rod out. Took vice grips and pulled up hard enought to break loose the carbon. Then the rod came right out, and the valves followed. Having never taken one apart i didn't know just how far the valves had to be lifted before the rod would come out.
Have decided to send the cylinder to Langcourt . Will keep you posted as to how it comes out. Thanks again all. And you know can't remember a bad tasting beer dave.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 11:46 pm Jan 11 2005

Hey, hey! I am glad to hear you got them out. When you get it all put back together, try to get the jetting fairly exact and that will help to keep them from getting gunked up again. It sounds like the previous owner neglected to maintain them.

BJH · Post by **BJH** » 06:23 am Jan 12 2005

Just as a curiosity. And I don't want to start the great oil debate here but...What kind of two-stroke oil have you been using?
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kips stuck

kips stuck