Shifting Problem.

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jafo
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Shifting Problem.

Post by jafo »

OK, this is not my bike but a friend of mine. His is a 2001 KDX200. He just got the bike not to long ago. It shifted fine the first few rides we took, but the last one he has noticed a shifting problem.

It seems that after the bike is hot or warmed up, that he has a hard time getting it into thrid gear. It seems to only happen with third gear though. It never happens early in the ride usually halfway through the day or so when it good and warmed up. We were thinking maybe the clutch cable, but that would'nt explain the reason it only happens in third. The oil level is good, and he has'nt been into the transcase yet, so could there be something were not thinking of? I remember somewhere reading that sometimes when a bike pops out of gear or is hard to put into gear it could also be a gear fork. sound right???? If so how could you damage a fork like that???

Jon.
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Post by Indawoods »

What kind of oil is he using in the case? More than likely... this is causing the hard shifting because it is breaking down when it is getting hot. Especially if he's a clutchy guy or it has been a long time between changes.
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Post by fuzzy »

Agreed...See what's in there...The KDX tranny seems to be especially picky abount wanting thin oil...

*arguable topic...just speaking from personal experience. Typical "gear saver" havy oils just don't jive w/ the KDX--again in my experience. Many KDX-ers were probably some of the first to try and sucessfully use ATF in their crankcases...
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Post by jafo »

Tranny Fluid in the Crankcase????? Wow. I don't think he knows what exactly is in the crankcase because he just got the bike and has'nt changed the oil yet. I'll let him know today.

Tranny fluid hugh? I may just try that myself! Never thought about it but thats really knda makes sence. Do you use Dextron or Ford ATF?? I notice my clutch kind of goes away alittl after hard riding. I have to get out and do a few laps to try to cool things down alittle. Then it seems to be fine. I run 10W-30 Valvoline oil in the crankcase. I was told not to ever uyse any synthetic oils in there because of the clutches. So I may try some Dextron fluid. I did'nt know these bikes were that picky.

Thanks a ton guys!!! Jon. :partyman:
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Post by Indawoods »

Mobil 1 ATF synthetic.... not the crankcase.... the tranny!
It's a 2 stroker you know!? :lol:
It may take a few changes before she works perfect since you are changing fluid types completely but should work out fine for you. Another thing to try... and this is what I and others use ...is Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic in the RED cap (Oil that is!) It doesn't have the friction modifiers in it that most synthetics do....
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Post by canyncarvr »

re: '*arguable topic'

Yes, it is.

For starters, the clutch cable likely has nothing to do with it. I don't use the clutch at all for most shifting, so the cable isn't the issue.

I use valvoline motor oil myself. Mostly due to my own personal experience with what works. I've used it in 2-smokes for literally hundreds of thousands of miles and it's worked fine for me.

Which oil to use is a matter of personal choice for sure, but there ARE some things you need to know. The 'friction modifier' thing is a big deal. Some motor oils are classed as 'energy savers', and that is NOT what you want to use.

Be sure to get the 'It may take a few changes ' part. Realize your clutch soaks this stuff up and so may not take kindly to mixing different types of oil.

I know some riders that use nothing but ATF and always have. I know some riders that have TRIED it, hate it and would never consider using it again.

Probably the most important thing is to CHANGE the fluid regularly. I mean every 2-3 rides! You saying, 'because he just got the bike and has'nt changed the oil yet' is an indicator of a poor maintenance attitude. In NO way should ANY 'new-to-you' bike be ridden AT ALL without some basic maintenance done to it. Air filter, oil change, suspension lubrication and such.

Bent fork? Yeah, they bend. How? Because they are directly connected to the boot of the rider! I've seen guys literally jam the hell out of that shift lever...for NO reason. Just because you're mad, in a hurry or like to boss things around, there is NO excuse for abusing your machine. Someone that knows trannys might respond (that's not me) but I know that some gear combinations are different from others and a damaged fork effect will show up in some places but not others.

I surely wouldn't worry about hard damage until I got the oil situation straightened out.

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Post by dave04kdx »

This is one of my first posts on Woodsrider from a couple of months ago. I don't know if this would apply to the H model but it's worth checking into.





I found something interesting on the gear change mechanism on my brothers (used to be mine) 1988 KDX. I'm not sure in the newer KDX's are the same but this might be useful.

We were riding a couple of weeks ago and the 88 developed a shifting probelm, the spring return on the shift lever was gone. We looked at the service manual after we got home and decided to buy all three springs that are located in the shift mechanism. They were cheap and 16 years old. Why not replace them all.

We got the parts and the next weekend we pulled the clutch cover. The change shaft return spring had one of the legs broken off. The change return spring is a torsion spring. We changed the torsion spring and I got on the bike to see how it shifted. The shifting was excellent, no more slop and long shift spacing. We changed the other two springs and buttoned it up. The 88 has had a problem finding neutral ever since I have owned it, ( I had it for 11 years) The change shaft return spring must have lost the tension on one of the legs over the years. The new spring cured the problem totally. My brother was talking about getting a new clutch, I'm glad the spring failed before we installed a new clutch. It shifts great and the whole job cost $20.00
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Post by jafo »

It's a 2 stroker you know!?

OK, OK, tranny!!! :rolleyes: I call it a crankcase just because it has a crank in it but has the tranny in it also, I'm still not up on all the terminaligy. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :partyman:

I may just try the tranny fluid and see what happens.

Jon.
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Post by canyncarvr »

That's kind of the point...it doesn't have a crank in it. Where the oil goes isn't where the crank is. The two are completely separated. I'm not sure, having read what you wrote, that that is clear.

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Post by jafo »

I took a look at the manual. I see where they are seperated but still are in the same casing. The Kawasaki site calls it a crankcase, but if they are seperated, how does the crank and the connecting rod get lubricated? I was looking at the manual but could'nt see how or where it gets the oil for the bearing.

Never the less, crankcase/transmission, where do we stand on ideas about the problem? What would be the next step after changing the oil? Pulling it apart to check things out?

So I just want to be clear, that the synthetic Mobil-1 is alright then. Thats what I will try and change the other bike over too. OK.

Jon.
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Post by m0rie »

jafo wrote:I took a look at the manual. I see where they are seperated but still are in the same casing. The Kawasaki site calls it a crankcase, but if they are seperated, how does the crank and the connecting rod get lubricated? I was looking at the manual but could'nt see how or where it gets the oil for the bearing.
The crank and connecting rod get lubricated by the premix in the gas. Thats (part of) what makes it a 2 stroke. 4 strokes have a sealed crankcase that has its own oil supply. A 2 stroke derives its lubrication from the oil mixed into the gas.

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Post by KDXGarage »

What he said. :-)

If you pull the cylinder off, you will see holes in the crankcase halves that lead down into the crankcase portion of the bottom end of the engine. The right side crank seal separates the transmission oil from the premix (oil/gas).

Separating the crankcase halves is how the transmissions are serviced. This requires some special tools during disassembly as well as reassembly.

What kind of transmission oil was being used?

Since Kawasaki recommends 10W-30 or 10W-40, you might want to stick with that. Make sure it is of the proper class of oils, also. Some have ingredients that will cause the clutch to slip. I think it is the energy conserving class of oils. I am not sure of what the letters are like, SE, SJ, etc.

I would try to make sure it has the proper oil and quantity, then try again. I have never had transmission problems, but if it is just having trouble with one gear, that doesn't sound too good.
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Post by BJH »

As a side note. The automotive oil that you should NOT use contains a slip agent in order to provide less friction in the motor and get better gas mileage. If I remeber correctly the agent in question is phosphorus but I could be wrong on that so don't take it for the gospel. At any rate that slip agent is fantastic for four stroke engines but it WILL ruin your clutch no matter what anyone says. By ruin I mean the clutch will slip, chatter, etc.
I know some people will call BS on that but, I have done it on my Harley (ruined a clutch with engine oil) so there. I now only use Mobil 1 for V-twin engines on it and I wouldn't be scared to use it in the transmission on my KDX if it came in the right weight.
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Post by jafo »

OK, thanks everybody for thier input. I do apritiate it.

Jon.
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