2005 KDX 220 timing marks?

The Duck of Deseret · Post by **The Duck of Deseret** » 02:19 pm Mar 02 2018

I see what I think is a 'pointer' arrow on the stator---but see no corresponding marking on the rotor? My bike sparks but won't even 'pop' even after priming who cylinder with a small amount of gas. There is no blockage in the exhaust system but the kickstarter doesn't feel right towards the end of it's stroke---almost as if the 'clutch' slips at that point. The bike was running fine when I put it in the garage at the start of winter? But it won't start---even pop---now. I've cleaned the carb, drained the tank and refilled with fresh gas----32:1 mix. Getting fair spark but ----nothing----?
There is no indication that the rotor has sheered the key -----but I have a top dead center gauge and want to check the timing. What is the degree before top dead center that it should fire?---and is there a timing mark on the rotor that I can reference? (I do have an auto timing light but would have to have the thing running ----and have a rotor timing mark to use it. So where I'm at now is that I'd try to line up the timing marks if they exist and then measure the piston position ----distance before top dead center> Id have to convert that distance to degrees----? anybody know what distance that should be? Any advise would really be appreciated. either here or by email to my personal email. lynnandnancy@gmail.com

John_S · Post by **John_S** » 02:39 pm Mar 02 2018

I don't have a complete answer regarding degrees and top dead center but there is a hash mark on the stator and 3 lines in the casting of the crankcase. You have to take the flywheel off to see this and its up around the 10-11:00 position on the stator. When the line on the stator is lined up with the center mark on the case that's the stock setting for the timing. The other two marks are advanced and retarded and the manual says you should be somewhere between the 3 marks depending on the power characteristic you're looking for. As far as I know there are no arrows or markings on the flywheel itself. If it ran fine when you put it away I would be looking at the petcock flow and making sure there isn't a nest or rag (something unusual) in the air cleaner boot. Is the spark plug (brand new one I assume) wet after you've been kicking it over and over?

Post by **KDXGarage** » 02:46 pm Mar 02 2018

If you didn't change the timing, then it should still be the same.

I assume you leaving fuel in the carb and tank is to blame. Clean and reclean. New plug?

doakley · Post by **doakley** » 06:22 pm Mar 02 2018

Compression, fuel,spark.
Given whet you've reported, is go after fuel first. Clean the carb (again), check that fuel is flowing to it from the tank, clean but preferably a new plug. If it still won't start try a short shot of ether. If that works, and it will crank readily after that, take the carb off again and replace , yes, the infamous jet block gasket.

pumpguy · Post by **pumpguy** » 08:29 pm Mar 02 2018

To answer your specific question, Page 4 of the owners manual says the ignition timing is 21 degrees BTDC @ 6000 RPM.

To set up the timing marks you are looking for so you can use a timing light to check the ignition timing while the engine is running, you will first need to set up a degree wheel on the outside of the flywheel. Next use your TDC gauge to find TDC and set a stationary pointer pointing to the zero mark on the degree wheel.

Make a mark on the flywheel and a corresponding mark on the case to show TDC without your gauge. Then rotate the flywheel backwards 21 degrees and make another mark on the case corresponding to the TDC mark on the flywheel.

This will give you a 21 degree advance mark you can check using a strobe timing light. I did this timing mark exercise on my H Series 200, but never got around to using the timing light. I'm happy with the way it runs so far.

Keep in mind that the CDI provides a variable timing, or so I understand, so don't be surprised if your strobe timing light shows different spark timing at different RPMs.

The above is based on my memory of how I did this, and how the ignition system operates. If I got it wrong, sorry for the misinformation.

The Duck of Deseret · Post by **The Duck of Deseret** » 01:49 am Mar 03 2018

Wow! What a great forum----to get 5 replies and very good advise---thanks John_S, Jason, Doakley and Pump guy. I'll take your combined advise to heart and get back to you soon with results. While I have the exhaust off I'll run a caustic solution thru the pipe and I'll clean and repack the muffler---and had already verified that they had no 'nesting' stuff in there---just a lot of pasty grease which the caustic solution will dissolve . I had not thought to check the air cleaner for nesting----will do that and will clean the filter. Because I have spark and a wet plug and get no ignition I will try the starter fluid first and if that doesn't start it Iwill do the timing thing recommended by Pump guy---his outline makes perfect sense to me. Thanks guys, I'll get back to you -----

The Duck of Deseret · Post by **The Duck of Deseret** » 11:35 am Mar 03 2018

Guys----I've got the piston on top dead center ---and there does appear to be some markings on the stator. I can see a small dark circle on the stator which has just gone past top dead center. I haven't measured that distance but suspect that it does represent the point at which the spark, would fire--- I have a photo---but have forgotten how to make it appear here? I would be happy to send it by email to anyone of you who may be interested to see it. That little dark circle is actually quite wide---not nearly as precise as if a single dot or punch mark had been placed as is most often the case with automotive timing marks that I have seen. Additionally there are three 'drill' holes' in the general area which I would have taken for 'balance' holes ---not deeply drilled ---but just maybe 1/8th inch deep. These are so widespread--maybe 1&1/2 inches wide that I doubt they have anything to do with timing. I just post this for your interest-----will proceed with my efforts to find out why this bike doesn't start? ONE Thing that continues to bother me is the strange---unusual---feeling that the kickstarter makes when it just about reaches the end of it's throw---maybe the last 4 inches of travel? I'll continue ---and will keep you posted of my findings. comments and/or advise welcomed.
---

The Duck of Deseret · Post by **The Duck of Deseret** » 12:43 pm Mar 03 2018

Whoa! New information. On closer inspection I see that there is a line scribed on the stator----just forward of the little circle. You have to look toward the back half of the stator width to see it. If I now measure the piston travel I find that the line (which I assume to be the firing point) is 1.52 mm before TDC. Now if I knew the total stroke of the piston---from Bottom dead Center to Top dead center---I could calculate the degrees before top dead center that the spark occurs and check that against the figure ( 21 degrees) that pump guy had given me to verify that line is the firing mark. I welcome anybody to double check me on that calculation? Is that line actually the timing mark?

pumpguy · Post by **pumpguy** » 12:52 pm Mar 03 2018

The stroke is 58 mm, 2.28 inches. This is also published on page 4 of the owner's manual.

Just curious, do you have a factory service manual and an owner's manual? As mentioned many times on this site, these are the most important tools you can have to care for and maintain your KDX.

The owner's manual is available as a free download from Kawasaki. See this site's home page for links to service manuals.

The Duck of Deseret · Post by **The Duck of Deseret** » 10:58 pm Mar 07 2018

Thanks pump guy----Yes and no---I have owners and maintenance manuals on several bikes---temporarily loaned to my son who has winter projects going on his three 220's. I downloaded a manual as per your instruction. At this point I've verified the stator timing marks, and have noted----as was suggested earlier----that the timing seems to vary according to how fast the rotor is spinning when the strobe light flashes---The spark is way late when the rotor spins slow---and 'almost' on time If I really kick it through hard. I believe the timing mark is probably set for 60000 RPM so I'll have to get it running at that RPM and check it there. There is no nesting in the pipe, muffler, or air cleaner. I will try the starting fluid when I get the pipe and muffler back on----I've ordered some Lye crystals to use to clean the sticky grease out of the pipe . I've repacked the muffler while I wait and am hoping to get it all back together and try to start it again next week after I get the pipe clean.
PS---I've got a couple old Kawasaki Trials bikes----hoping to get time to go through them this spring. I've also got a bare frame from a 220---if anybody needs it?

Post by **bufftester** » 08:42 pm Mar 08 2018

I think you may be missing the forest for the trees here. Bike ran when you put it away, so not likely that your timing changed sitting there. You have spark, and air, so fuel would be my first focus. Clean the carb again, especially if it sat with fuel in it. A shot of ether and if it runs on that you have a fuel issue. The strange feeling in your kickstarter may be the first sign that the kickstarter spur gear and/or spring is starting to wear. Fairly common issue which usually worsens to the point where it feels like the kickstarter won't even engage, or slips out halfway through a kick. Search for kickstarter slipping here and you will see. Fix is a new spur gear and spring. Hope you find the issue before the riding season gets going!

The Duck of Deseret · Post by **The Duck of Deseret** » 02:52 pm Mar 15 2018

I'm at an impasse----totally confused. Stator is correctly positioned according to the timing marks----the rotor also appears to be aligned on timing marks with the piston just .052" Before Top dead center. The bike ran fine when I put it up in the garage for the winter which is strong evidence that the timing is still OKI-------moving on to the fuel----checked and double checked the carb--- plug is wet ----I even primed the cylinder by injecting a bit of gas into the spark plug hole---inserted the plug----and got not even a pop when I kicked the kickstarter over. The plug sparks strongly when it's out---but MAY NOT BE SPARKing when it's screwed in the head???????? Can that be possible????? I've looked at the reeds and they are ok---not stuck-----and finally, I sprayed a bunch of starter fluid into the intake manifold (with the filter out)----replaced the cover and kicked it over expecting to hear a bang---pop---or anything to indicate that it had fired--------NOTHING. I am wondering now WTF is going on----/???? What am I missing? Is this Wonderful KDX about to become a distant target for my Quigley 45/70 or what?

Post by **KDXGarage** » 03:52 pm Mar 15 2018

Check all electrical connections. You have an electrical problem if it won't "hit a lick" on starting fluid.

The Duck of Deseret · Post by **The Duck of Deseret** » 02:12 pm Mar 16 2018

""The plug sparks strongly when it's out""---I was thinking the same thing Jason---weak component in the electrical system which won't 'spark' under pressure. Should have at least popped with the starting fluid but I didn't hear it---and can now offer the explanation for that----I'm very hard of hearing and didn't have my hearing aids on---must not have heard it.
OK-----today I found the problem----I think!. The funny feeling kickstarter should have told me-----weak compression----measured at about 35 pounds. Pulled the cylinder-----rings were hard stuck in grooves. The other day I cut my expansion chamber in half to make sure there wasn't a chipmonk nest stuck in there an lo----what I found was anywhere from 1/2" to 3/4 " of hardened Benoil laying all along the bottom of the chamber--Whoa? I've been using Benoil for many years and now see the downside both in the expansion chamber and in the cementing of the rings in the cylinder grooves- That'l be the end ---I have the most part of a gallon left if anybody wants it----"Free'' but you have to pay shipping or pick it up.
(I'll get a new piston, rings, and bearing and be back on the road soon----I'll braze the expansion chamber back together---after I burn out all that crud---no harm done there.
I I don't know why in heck the starting fluid didn't pop----only thing I can think of is that I JUST DIDN'T HEAR IT?

Post by **KDXGarage** » 02:30 pm Mar 16 2018

WOW. Sorry to read that. You at least now know which way to go.

Post by **bufftester** » 10:50 pm Mar 16 2018

35 psi probably wasn't enough even for starting fluid.

The Duck of Deseret · Post by **The Duck of Deseret** » 12:41 pm Mar 17 2018

One last comment -------Re the Benoil. There are two sides to that story---in fairness. Two stroke oil is supposed to have a hi flash point----that allows it not to burn readily under ignition ---it survives the heat and does it's job of lubrication. It has done a remarkable job in that respect because for all the hard miles I've put on this bike the cylinder has worn not much. I measure 2.719 " across the bore at the top of the stroke----I think that is remarkable----There is (by calculation) only .003" gap left when the piston is installed---that space occupied by the rings. I'd bet that is very close to what it was when it was new????? The downside, it appears that the oil does't burn off at all but what doesn't get ejected out the muffler collects and hardens in the bottom of the pipe. Maybe, in balance, it's worth a new pipe every 12 years---or if you have a hacksaw and a torch you can burn the stuff out of the pipe and braze the pipe back together again. PS----Ive now fashioned a 'drain' at the bottom of the muffler which allows oil collecting there to be relieved. Easy to do on the muffler because oil collecting there gravity flows to the base.

The Duck of Deseret · Post by **The Duck of Deseret** » 12:53 pm Mar 17 2018

Julian-------I've not figured out how to 'donate' to this fine forum? Should I submit cc number in the larger left side donate box----then how do I specify the amount I want to donate?----the smaller box to the right appears to designate only the type of currency to use?????? When I click on that box it doesn't allow me to insert an amount? You may advise me by email or private message you will?

Post by **bufftester** » 10:10 pm Mar 20 2018

Went back and read your opening post to see how we missed the mark helping diagnose your issue. Doakley mentioned the word (compression) but I think we all just assumed it was good since you stated it was running fine prior to storing it. I had a similar issue with my son's KLX300, it ran fine (though he mentioned it felt a "little weaker than normal" and next ride wouldn't start at all. Tear down revealed a broken piston ring land. I suspect that the clue was in your description of how your kickstarter felt like it was slipping at the end of it's travel. Now I can see where that is likely how it would feel if you kicked a motor with no compression! It's funny because usually Jason or I open our first response with "check everything is mechanically good, check compression, do a leak down, etc, etc. This time we didn't. Oh well, live and learn!

The Duck of Deseret · Post by **The Duck of Deseret** » 09:18 pm Apr 14 2018

buff tester----No you guys are great. I'm an old timer---way old---and I should have figured it out. Like you said---It was running fine when I put it up last fall-----so the last thing I expected was the stuck rings. And boy where they stuck---the hard carbon residue from the unburned oil had 'set up' during that downtime while it was stored. I imagine that I could have chiseled the rings free but new piston, rings , wrist pin and bearing was a better choice. The weather had turned cold here---it was 32 degrees F when I got up this morning----so I've been slow finishing up. Repacked the muffler, and installed a new pipe in the process----and finally got around to forming a neat little rack to support a set of canvas saddle bags which was the 'final" bit------it's ready to go (I think) --have drained the tank, cleaned the fuel filter but haven't filled it with premix. I think I'll try the AMS product ---no more Benoil for me.
Now---to put a cap on this thread---I'd like to donate----do you guys accept Paypal? What's the PP address you use?

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