Gas....how long till it's too old?
-
- Member
- Posts: 644
- Joined: 11:33 pm Feb 17 2005
- Country:
- Location: Vancouver area, Canada
Gas....how long till it's too old?
Just a friendly little debate goin on here between my bro and I. He won't run premix older than 2 weeks in his KTM 300EXC and I just give the can a shake and happily fill my KDX up to....maybe...3-4 months..PROVIDED I add in some fresh premix before the pouring begins.
Question: anybody know of engine damage that was likely caused by premix getting a little too old?
Question: anybody know of engine damage that was likely caused by premix getting a little too old?
- Mr. Wibbens
- KDXRider.net
- Posts: 4884
- Joined: 02:57 am Nov 07 2004
- Country:
- Location: Playing in the Poison Oak
- Contact:
HOGWASH!
last time I rode my KDX, it had 8 month old gas in it, it started within 3 kicks
Ran with the best of 'em!
Won't run gas older than 2 weeks?
Sounds pretty dumb!
But then again he IS riding a KTM!
last time I rode my KDX, it had 8 month old gas in it, it started within 3 kicks
Ran with the best of 'em!
Won't run gas older than 2 weeks?
Sounds pretty dumb!
But then again he IS riding a KTM!
Warning! This member tends to use sarcasm as a regular form of communication. If a post seems offensive, before you panic and fly off the handle, re-read the post and imagine it being said with a sideways grin.
((Bike Profile))
((Pics))
FIVE OUT OF FOUR PEOPLE DONUT UNDERSTAND FRACTIONS
((Bike Profile))
((Pics))
FIVE OUT OF FOUR PEOPLE DONUT UNDERSTAND FRACTIONS
- bradf
- Gold Member
- Posts: 703
- Joined: 02:17 am Dec 11 2004
- Country: USA
- Location: Anderson, SC
- m0rie
- Supporting Member I
- Posts: 2220
- Joined: 10:25 pm Nov 29 2004
- Country:
- Location: Crescent City, CA
Shake it up and go. I always add some stabil to the winter gas can since it seems that riding can be a bit hard to come by around this time of year. Never had any problems with the gas afterwards. We just broke in my sisters new KTM 200XC-W with the same 3 month old gas that my KDX runs. Didn't hurt it one bit.
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
2007 TTR-50E
-
- Supporting Member III
- Posts: 218
- Joined: 08:46 pm Feb 27 2005
- Country:
This is good
Think about the gas supply chain. First it is pumped from a well and the oil that comes out is how many millions of years old?
Then it is shipped via supertankers that take how long?
Then it goes to a refinery and is then pumped into holding tanks. From the holding tanks it goes to a tanker truck or railcar and is shipped all over the country. then it goes into aother holding tank at the local gas station and sits for how long I wonder. Then it finally gets to your car/gas can.
Can you image the lawsuits these oil companies would face if gas went bad after 2 weeks?
Mark
Then it is shipped via supertankers that take how long?
Then it goes to a refinery and is then pumped into holding tanks. From the holding tanks it goes to a tanker truck or railcar and is shipped all over the country. then it goes into aother holding tank at the local gas station and sits for how long I wonder. Then it finally gets to your car/gas can.
Can you image the lawsuits these oil companies would face if gas went bad after 2 weeks?
Mark
- canyncarvr
- Gold Member
- Posts: 6943
- Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
- Country: US
- Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
re: Ran with the best of 'em!
Who were you ridin' with? ;)
General consensus is that gas starts to deteriorate almost immediately. Yeah...and right after you're born you start the dying process as immediately.
It's far more the damage caused to carbs when gas sits for a long time than it is damage caused to the engine.
I've seen carbs so full of junk after sitting for a year that most carb orifices were completely blocked off. In that case (this guy did it more than once..he's a slow learner) there was NO preparation done for storage. Park it and forget it.
I've had 2-year old fuel (regular, stabil treated) in my home generator start on the second pull (10hp 5KW) and run just fine.
The two week idea is funny. But that's about all it is. Yeah...look at what he rides!! Charge some guys a couple thousand more than what it's worth, put a 'race ready ' label on it somewhere...they'll buy it!! Besides, everyone ELSE is buyin' them!! They GOTTA be good!!
Do him a huge favor...use up his rotten old crummy steenking gas that's two weeks old...just so he won't have to!!
Who were you ridin' with? ;)
General consensus is that gas starts to deteriorate almost immediately. Yeah...and right after you're born you start the dying process as immediately.
It's far more the damage caused to carbs when gas sits for a long time than it is damage caused to the engine.
I've seen carbs so full of junk after sitting for a year that most carb orifices were completely blocked off. In that case (this guy did it more than once..he's a slow learner) there was NO preparation done for storage. Park it and forget it.
I've had 2-year old fuel (regular, stabil treated) in my home generator start on the second pull (10hp 5KW) and run just fine.
The two week idea is funny. But that's about all it is. Yeah...look at what he rides!! Charge some guys a couple thousand more than what it's worth, put a 'race ready ' label on it somewhere...they'll buy it!! Besides, everyone ELSE is buyin' them!! They GOTTA be good!!
Do him a huge favor...use up his rotten old crummy steenking gas that's two weeks old...just so he won't have to!!
Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
bike profile: !clicky!
-
- Member
- Posts: 644
- Joined: 11:33 pm Feb 17 2005
- Country:
- Location: Vancouver area, Canada
I haven't personally seen premix get old enough to plug up/foul a carb. Straight gas...yup..helped me get more than one great deal on a used bike. "So, whatcha take for this bike that won't even run?"
CC...you're right on the money about using up his "old" gas. I'll help out in any way I can.... his peace of mind being important and all!! Ain't that what brothers are for? With all the bikes I must fuel, just need to figure out how to get him to mix WAY too much each time we ride. This is one post he'll never see! HAH!
On the Kosta Too Mucha 300EXC... there are things I like about that bike.... like Loads of power..clutch feel.. Not much else really. Doesn't stick the front end very well. Love the power!! He's usually out front when we ride, but not by much. And I'm working on it.
CC...you're right on the money about using up his "old" gas. I'll help out in any way I can.... his peace of mind being important and all!! Ain't that what brothers are for? With all the bikes I must fuel, just need to figure out how to get him to mix WAY too much each time we ride. This is one post he'll never see! HAH!
On the Kosta Too Mucha 300EXC... there are things I like about that bike.... like Loads of power..clutch feel.. Not much else really. Doesn't stick the front end very well. Love the power!! He's usually out front when we ride, but not by much. And I'm working on it.
- m0rie
- Supporting Member I
- Posts: 2220
- Joined: 10:25 pm Nov 29 2004
- Country:
- Location: Crescent City, CA
The lack of stick in the front end is most likely the incredibly stiff valving that the KTM's come with. A $40 fabtech revalve kit will work wonders to make the front end track correctly and predictably.
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
2007 TTR-50E
- canyncarvr
- Gold Member
- Posts: 6943
- Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
- Country: US
- Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
I'm not a 'green is great, therefore orange sucks' kind'a guy...FWIW.
I've spent quite a lot of time on a punkin 200..it was a lot of fun and there were many good things about it.
I wouldn't buy one, though. And not just because of the price.
I've spent quite a lot of time on a punkin 200..it was a lot of fun and there were many good things about it.
I wouldn't buy one, though. And not just because of the price.
Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
bike profile: !clicky!
-
- Member
- Posts: 644
- Joined: 11:33 pm Feb 17 2005
- Country:
- Location: Vancouver area, Canada
-
- Supporting Member III
- Posts: 84
- Joined: 09:29 pm Jul 29 2005
- Country:
- Location: So Cal
I am not very anal about the age of the gas we use. As long as it doesn't smell rank, we use it. But.....
If you read much from the 2-stroke airplane crowd you'll get a little paranoid about using "old" gas. A lot of propeller-head engineer types write articles about this subject. They do make a few good points. One is what we store fuel in. Plastic tanks and plastic cans are not completely vapor proof. Some of the lighter fractions in gasoline migrate out of plastic tanks, altering the fuel left behind. Does this happen quickly? Personally, I doubt it.
Another issue is the deterioration of the lubricant in the fuel. Something about the "long-chain hydrocarbons" breaking down, effectively reducing the lubricity of the 2-stroke mix. Again, how fast does this happen? The 2-stroke airplane motor gurus claim it happens quite quickly, in as little as a couple of days.
One thing to keep in mind is the duty the airplane motors asked to perform. Basically, they run continuously at 70 to 80% of max all the time, with intervals of max power at take-off and climbing. I think that is way more than we generally ask of our motors (except for maybe skipro or canyoncarvr or some of the really hard core riders)
Let the tomato throwing begin! After all, I am only a faceless collection of electronic typeset to all of you guys! Actually, I'm just a slow OFG with nothing better to do than be a contrarian.
And for the record, only a moron or cinderella would ride on or in anything orange..........
Mark (the ugly one without the glass slipper)
If you read much from the 2-stroke airplane crowd you'll get a little paranoid about using "old" gas. A lot of propeller-head engineer types write articles about this subject. They do make a few good points. One is what we store fuel in. Plastic tanks and plastic cans are not completely vapor proof. Some of the lighter fractions in gasoline migrate out of plastic tanks, altering the fuel left behind. Does this happen quickly? Personally, I doubt it.
Another issue is the deterioration of the lubricant in the fuel. Something about the "long-chain hydrocarbons" breaking down, effectively reducing the lubricity of the 2-stroke mix. Again, how fast does this happen? The 2-stroke airplane motor gurus claim it happens quite quickly, in as little as a couple of days.
One thing to keep in mind is the duty the airplane motors asked to perform. Basically, they run continuously at 70 to 80% of max all the time, with intervals of max power at take-off and climbing. I think that is way more than we generally ask of our motors (except for maybe skipro or canyoncarvr or some of the really hard core riders)
Let the tomato throwing begin! After all, I am only a faceless collection of electronic typeset to all of you guys! Actually, I'm just a slow OFG with nothing better to do than be a contrarian.
And for the record, only a moron or cinderella would ride on or in anything orange..........
Mark (the ugly one without the glass slipper)
'02 KDX 220, '06 KTM 525 EXC Dualsport (CA Plated) '00 KTM 640 Adventure R (for sale), '04 KTM 400 EXC, '96 Honda XR400R Dualsport (CA Plated), Were not lost, we're right here......