Thinking about buying. Got ?????????

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YZippy
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Thinking about buying. Got ?????????

Post by YZippy »

Hello all. I've been lurking for quite a while.....doing reasearch for another bike. I currently own a 98 YZ 400F, but will be selling soon due to its mass and difficulty in the woods. Love the power on the track, but I spend over half of the time in the forest and a tall, heavy, hard starting thumper is too much for this 42 year old to deal with.

I have just about settled on a KDX as my next bike. I had a RMX and the KDX seems like the next best thing as the RMX is getting hard to find and are usually 8 or more years old. I have read JustKDX.com, FRP and this site. I am familiar with the mods and which bike needs what. I do have a few questions and concerns I hope you can help me with.

1) I'll spend 30-40% of my time on a light outdoor MX track. Will the .38 or .40 springs do ok for me? 170 Lbs. How does the bike do on an MX track?

2) I did not see a way to adjust rebound on the forks. Will I have to use oil height and weight to dial in?

3) Power. I love the 400. I know the KDX can't match that, but if it will run with a 250F I'll be thrilled. How 'bout it?

4) The KDX has a cult following like no other bike I've seen. Is it really that good? I've never seen anything bad written or said about it.

Thanks in advance. Hope to join the cult in March or April.
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Post by Colorado Mike »

welcome Zippy.

I think if I spent that much time on the track, I would get a used 250 two stroke MX bike. I think it's easier and cheaper to do a few things to one of those to make it trail-ready, than to go through trying to make a KDX more track-able. But that's just me.
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Post by skipro3 »

I have both a 1999 KDX220 and a 2002 KX250. The KDX is the best woods trail bike out there and only gets better with simple mods. It's very forgiving and simple to ride. The KX250 has quite a bit more power, is geared tallr in 1st and 2nd, and has MX style suspsension. I've modded the KX for the woods. There's another thread about that somewhere on the board here. It was pretty easy to just toss money at it to get the job done. But the reverrse isn't true; tossing money at the KDX isn't going to get it workalble on a MX track. It will break under that kind of use. The frame, swingarm, suspension, etc., just can't hold up to a life of 30-40% MX track use.
When you see the two bikes standing side by side, it's obvious that the KX has a beefier frame. The swingarm alone is about twice the size.
If you have the funds, get two bikes; one for each type of riding. If not, then evaluate your MX disire to ride. If you don't want to cut back on the track, then work on getting a MX bike to work in the woods. It won't be fast on a MX track that way, but at least you won't be repairing major damage every 3rd or 4th ride.
Hope that helps!!
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Post by YZippy »

Thanks for the replies. I haven't the opportunity tho compare the bikes. I would probably cut back on the MX work if given the choice. At 42 I can see that coming to an end soon. The small private track near my house is very low key. Lots of fun, but nothing major. I think the KDX would be OK there.

THe other tracks in the area??? No way! I'll probably pursue Hare Scrambles or Enduros anyway. I was always faster in the woods. How does the KDX compare with say.. a WR250F? I know the WR has an advantage in suspension.

One appealing thing about the KDX is you get a fairly new bike for much less money than an MX bike. I'll look at KTMs and KX or YZs, but I think I'll end up with a KDX.
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Post by Indawoods »

The KDX has a following because it is cheap to buy and maintain. It is very hard to break and is as dependable as any bike I can think of. Not to mention it is quite the woods bike with 4 stroke type low rpm chug and will light it up when you want it too.

New 4 strokers WR or not... topend every 20 hours... I say have fun... not for me. costs a bundle too...

Just depends on your pocketbook and time to spend on maintenence.
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Post by YZippy »

No. The thumpers aren't for me either. A total PITA to do the simplest service. Pulled the carb off the 400 a couple of days ago....1 hour. Used to pull off the RMX....15 min. Pull the header to change oil. 250F is a $500 top end job that frankly I don't have the tools or skill to do. Love the power, but the heck with the rest.

I like the idea of a KDX as it seems to be similar to an RMX. THat bike was a tank.... in a positive sense! I think a KDX will be fast enough as I got smoked by one back in 1996 at a hare scramble. :shock: :shock:
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Post by canyncarvr »

As long as you keep in mind what your balance is, you will be a lost less likely disappointed.

Like Ski said...40% track is a good bit. He's right about the money tossing and the non-reversal part. CM said the same (right) thing. Be sure you have taken into account what you're actually doing to DO with the bike.

My KDX is six years old, has thousands of miles on it...it's never seen a track.

If you can't get your KDX carby off the bike in about 60 seconds (that leaves you some time for a break), you're playin' with it! Honestly!

Add another 60 if you have an airstriker carb...but you'll find out about THAT later! :wink:

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Post by Indawoods »

Not saying a KDX is a MX bike because it simply is not.... but, I have never heard of the KDX swingarm, frame or anything else failing besides front suspension riding on a track. The front forks are definately the weakest link and if you want to do yourself a favor if buying a KDX... change it out to KX forks. And no, I am not saying this makes it as beefy or as fast as a KX but I think it will get you by quite well... even on the occasional track ride if that's what you want to do.....
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Post by YZippy »

Time and money are limiting factors for me so I think a KDX is going to be the way to go unless I up on a fabulous deal on an MX bike or a KTM. THe carb on the 400 was an eye opener for me. Pull the tank, pull the hot start connection and knob. Then pull the cable cover, disconnect the dual throttle cable in the infintesimaly small area to work in. Pull the frozen TPS connector. Then pull the carb. I could do it again in about half the time, but that is still over twice the time involved on my old 2 smokes.

I'm not gonna race MX and my local track is very tame Euro style.....fast but smooth, with good jump landings. I've ridden more gnarley woods loops. I would love to start some HS racing in the 40+ class and I think he KDX is the weapon I need. BTW.............I see the difference now in the KX and the KDX as it relates to beefiness. Big difference. Hope to have a KDX by spring. Get some seat time. And then surprise some folks on 250s and 250Fs :butthead: in late Summer or this fall. THanks guys.
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Post by Mark W »

I run my KDX220 more on the MX tracks following my son around than I do on the trails. I view it a little differently. If I had a MX bike, I would be doing things that an old man like me shouldn't and I would most likely get hurt. With the KDX, I can do just about all I would want to do and be perfectly happy doing so.

I changed out the front springs and that helped a HUGE amount. I'm doing some stuff now that should give me a little more zip out of the corners as that is what is lacking on this bike - at least the way I ride it.

I've jumped some little jumps with no problem and I've jumped some bigger ones (maybe 30 feet long,6-8 feet high) with little effort. I wouldn't go for the big triples or higher jumps although I've seen others do it on my bike.

For what it is worth.
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Post by KDXer »

FWIW I have jumped a stock suspended KDX200 (pinned in 4th) a tad over 75' (not happily). It will happily jump 40' all day long though. Keeping in mind I only weight around 160#. Unless your talking about 90-100+ on stock suspension you'll be fine.
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Post by 4Rider »

When I was looking for a new (different) bike for my son I found this site and asked a lot of questions. I can honestly say that I everything I was told by the guys here was accurate. Every response on this thread looks good to me.

in your original post you mentioned that you never see anything bad written about the KDX. That is not the case here. As I said, they guys here seem to be pretty honest. The KDX does have shortcomings. The front suspension is outdated and a little anemic as described above. The frame is not on a par with the latest KTM oval-tubing high-tech offerings, and I guess that if you are good enough you can probably feel it flex when you really pound it. Personally, if I am riding hard enough to get the frame to flex enough to feel, I am already scared so s**tless that I wouldn't notice unless it folded in half.

The KDX is not a serious MX machine as indicated above. It does work very well on GP style or european style mx tracks.

What the KDX excels at is, as described above, woods riding, single-track, enduros, trail rides, technical trails etc. The KDX is a serious "fun-machine". We have also found it to be a very capable desert bike. We ride a lot in both the low and high desert areas in california. It works well in the sand washes and the low-end grunt is almost 4-stroke/thumper-like. Another issue that the KDX excels at is reliability and low maintenance demands. When significant work is needed, the relative cost to repair a KDX (or most 2-strokes) is much lower and far simpler than any of the current high-performance thumpers. Look through some of the posts describing a CFR or KTM valve job, and if you are still undecided, look at the parts costs then decide which way to go.

We have a number of bikes and lots of regular riding buddies with other bikes to compare with. My wife has a KTM 400 EXC that is excellent in the same way that the KDX is. Yes, the katoom has a little more grunt at the bottom end, and the suspension is definitely more capable, but it cost almost triple what I paid for the KDX. On the big (as in very, very big) disadvantage side, the KTM is way maintenance intensive when compared to the KDX. Changing oil after every weekend, while not a big deal, is a royal pain. Don't even get me started on valve adjustments.

We also have an XR400R, which is probably as close of a direct comparison between a 4-stroke and the KDX as you can find. The XR4 has a little more bottom end grunt, and about the same mid-range power as the KDX 220, but it is heavier and feels a whole lot heavier than the actual difference between the two bikes. The KDX wins the top end battle hands down. The KDX steers much quicker and feels snappier. hard to put an exact finger on it, but the KDX is just more nimble than the XR.

You were also asking about the KDX compared to a 250F. We have a KDX 220. It is known for it's torque, grunt, bottom end or whatever you want to call it. My opinion is that the KDX has more bottom end and more mid-range than the 250f. I personally found the WR250s to be gutless and a disappointing ride. The same goes for the KTM 250 EXC, which is probably why they stopped making it.

Lastly, lets talk about starting issues. I can't personally report on starting a YZ 400F, but if it is anything like starting a 426F or 450F, you really have something to look forward to. The KDX is about the easiest starting bike I have ever been around. My son is barely tall enough to get a foot on the ground astride the KDX, and he has no problem starting it either hot or cold. The KDX's don't eat sparkplugs like the MX 2-strokes either. If you've ever been near having a heart-a-stroke while trying to beat a hot 4-stroke back into life after a fall you know how important this can be.

There, I wrote more words than all you other guys so I win.

Mark
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Post by skipro3 »

I still stand by my thoughts and opinions; The KDX will not hold up to competition (workable) on a MX course if it's used there 40% of it's life. I base 40% to be about 1 race and 1 practice a month. At least, on the MX courses I see out where I live.
Now that the use has been defined a little different, (not in competion, a mild and smooth track, etc) then I would say the KDX would hold up to riding on a MX course. I repeat: You can ride a KDX on a MX course. It won't hold up to competing on a modern MX course. An MX bike is specialized for it's particular use and the KDX likewise. One is not a better performer than the other except in it's designed application. One can be modified to perform in the other's arena, but the KDX will still not be able to seriously compete in races on a MX track whereas a KX can be made to be competitive in an enduro. Sure, it's much easier to ride the KDX on a trail ride than a KX if you are just trail riding. The intensity of your riding style makes a huge difference. Do you enjoy trail bike riding where you enjoy a moderate pace for a few hours about once a month or so? Save a ton of money and buy a KDX. Do you compete in AMA District off road (Enduro or CrossCountry) races regularly as well as practice days and train to advance in your class? Save the frustration and get something else. Somewhere in between? Then you judge your level of envolvement and commitment and go from there. The reason I have BOTH bikes is for just that reason: Mostly now I ride very aggressively and require a bike that is set up and can handle that type of riding. I didn't start out that way and I built up my KDX to this level. Someday, (soon I expect) I'll be riding as agressively as I can but not at a level that requires the KX. Then the KDX will be there. In the meantime the KDX is a great bike for my friends I'm introducing to dirtbiking, visiting from out of the area, when the KX is down for service, family members, etc.

Someone looking to purchase a new (to them anyway) dirtbike needs to be really honest with themself in regards to their riding ablilities and their realistic skills and time commitment. It's easy to think you are competitive in MX if you can jump a KDX 40 or even 75 feet. It's another to realize that in practice. If anyone out there can show me one rider who is ranked in MX competition (AMA or other organization) in the Senior class B Rider (40+) on a KDX, I'll eat my words. If anyone can show me any rider that competes in MX on a KDX, I'd be really interested in that too.

O.K. I expect a bunch of flaming due to my opinions but just remember, they are just that, my opinions and should not be considered of much, if any value for any purpose other than entertainment value.
:wink:

Did I type enough words to take over the lead? (See, I told you I was competitive!!)
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Post by canyncarvr »

3) Power. I love the 400. I know the KDX can't match that, but if it will run with a 250F I'll be thrilled. How 'bout it?

I skipped over this part earlier.

This question has all sorts of other questions it brings up, of course...like who is riding what. :wink:

The guy I used to ride most with has a CRF250X. He's a far more capable rider than I will ever be, so 'running with' him in any technical stuff isn't going to happen. There have been a few times though, in more open stuff where he being a much better rider matters less, that he and I have stayed pretty close. I've actually passed him once or twice...I'm sure only 'cuz he let me (what he'd say anyway).

My bike runs a whole lot better than it did off the showroom floor. Unmodified it wouldn't have a prayer of a chance keeping up with the CRF.

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Post by Mr. Wibbens »

>|<>QBB<
KAY DEE EXER wrote:FWIW I have jumped a stock suspended KDX200 (pinned in 4th) a tad over 75' (not happily). .
And the thought of riding on lil skinny goat trails SCARES you?!!!!!! :shock:
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Post by 4Rider »

Yep, did a word count on our posts and I still kicked your skinny little message by a fair margin. Try again when you are really bored and can't sleep.

Much more of this and Vince is going to start charging us by the word.

I can't see why anyone would flame you for your post. Nothing you said is outrageous, out of line or inflamatory.
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Post by skipro3 »

Us KDX owners tend to be quite sensitive to ANY critque of our choice in bikes. We tend to believe they can do anything. And they can; it's the rider that is lacking!! :lol: HaW!!!

Seriously though, the bike is the best value out there on so many levels I couldn't begin to list them all. It's turned generations on to dirt biking as well as getting some of us older guys back into the sport now that we have the time to after raising families and other distractions. It says alot about a dirt bike when the older crowd, who has a larger discresionary income and could probably afford any dirt bike out there, spends their money on a KDX instead of anything else. I'm so amazed that it isn't marketed that way. I just watched a "Modern Marvels" show on motorcycles. Their segment on Harleys discribed a customer that exactly fits the KDX owner: The older rider who left riding to raise a family and attend to a career and, who can now get back into something fun. Harley now out paces Honda in motorcycle sales in the USA. Kawasaki is really missing the boat in selling fun to a market that has the funds by not marketing their KDX product. Heck, in my case, in only a few years, not only will I and my two sons be riding a KDX, but my grand kids will be too if the bike remains available.

I wonder if Ma Kaw monitors these boards for tips on selling their products?
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Post by YZippy »

Well this is a good site for info. I guess I should have said hom many times a month I was going to ride instead of percentages as that isn't quantifiable. Well I figure 1-1 and a half days a month on a track and 3 days in the woods. The track time will be on a fast, but natural terrain MX track. THe KDX will be Ok there. In the woods I'll be pretty aggressive. A fast C rider....with some time and conditioning a very fast C or slow B rider.

When I remarked about the lack of negative comments it was more related to the fact that there were no real reliability issues or glaring screw ups. I have already figured in the typical upgrades. Many are similar to the ones I made on the RMX. And yes. Starting the 400 is total torture :evil: No amount of power on tap can be worth it!!
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Post by KDXer »

>|<>QBB<
Mr. Wibbens wrote:>|<>QBB<
KAY DEE EXER wrote:FWIW I have jumped a stock suspended KDX200 (pinned in 4th) a tad over 75' (not happily). .
And the thought of riding on lil skinny goat trails SCARES you?!!!!!! :shock:
Big difference is I had jumped the same table top probably 40 times that day, working my way up to clearing it. Then a brainwave came across me and I thought 'hey what about trying to seat bounce'........


I ended up landing 30+ foot past the down ramp. OUCH !!!


I reckon if I worked myself up to that type of riding I should be OK but for someone who has never been or seen gnarly stuff like that, it is a bit of a wake up call. :mrgreen:
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Post by skipro3 »

We all develop our skills by practice. No way I could do a 40+ foot table top on my bike but on skis, I would not hesitate and do them all day long. Same with goat trails, not a problem when you've been there; done that.
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