Cylinder nut torque procedure

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Mark W
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Cylinder nut torque procedure

Post by Mark W »

Got the head and cylinder off today. That wasn't such a bad job at all. Other than on bolt being tough to get out, it wasn't bad at all. I can see where if you didn't know the KIPS shaft nut was reverse thread much damage could be done. Good thing for the manual and the people on this site.

My head was in good shape and I far as I can tell the cylinder walls look real good. The piston has quite a bit of crap on it and I haven't tore into the KIPS yet.

Here's my question. After being totally amazed at how easy it was to get the cylinder off (was way harder on the sports car), and sitting there quite proud at it not taking very long, I soon realized that it is going to be darn near impossible to put the 4 cylinder nuts back on torqued to the proper value. What's the secret or trick that is involved in doing this?

KIPS to be torn into tomorrow and the piston will be removed. Ran out of time tonight.

Thanks guys -

Mark
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Post by NM_KDX200 »

Motion Pro makes a torque wrench adapter- Rocky Mountain probably sells it. 's what I use.

Here's your huckleberry:
http://www.motionpro.com/Docs/convtools_2.html
Torque Wrench Adapter
Last edited by NM_KDX200 on 06:41 pm Jan 07 2006, edited 2 times in total.
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bradf
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Post by bradf »

see this thread, we talked about how we worked around it
http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopi ... der+torque
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Post by canyncarvr »

bradf: I never did see a response from you regarding the 90º part requiring no math to figure torque value changes....that got sorted out?

bradf's is a good work-around!

If I had thought of it...I wouldn't have bought the MP wrench in the first place! Good thinking!!

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Post by bradf »

There is a value change. Using an 8 inch 12mm wrench and a 16 inch torque wrench at 90 degrees, it would come out to "about" 10% more torque required. So the 18 ft/lbs would need almost 20 ft/lbs. I tested this set-up on the bench and it was dern close.
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Post by canyncarvr »

So...it WASN'T sorted out.

I disagree.

There is NO value change if the torque wrench is kept at 90º to the other piece. Only if the length of the lever changes does the value change. Held at 90º. the length does not change.

A different axis, but the same thing....an extension used on a torque wrench (if used properly) doesn't change the torque value either.

Check out the equation for figuring value change...it doesn't say anything about angles..indeed specifies the length of the leverage arm when the setup is in a straight line.

!Click Here! to see the formula and a graphic.

Now...if the ratchet assy of the wrench is such that you cannot GET to a 90º setup..THEN you have to do some figgern.

Please do address what you see to be wrong with this point of view. I'm always interested in mending the error of my ways!

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Indawoods
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Post by Indawoods »

Buy the tool already! Jeesh! :roll:
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Post by canyncarvr »

:hmm:

Methinks you speak too soon....

Tool or no tool, the question still needs a correct answer. Even with the tool the angle at which it is attached to the ratchet will effect the applied torque value.

Do you want someone to attach the MotionPro tool in a straight line, add three inches to the length of their wrench, and set their wrench to the spec'd torque value?

Of course you don't. :wink:

Something is going to break.

There is a correct answer. It matters.

IMO and all that..........

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Post by Indawoods »

I torques mine by feel... so there!
No leaks and didn't snap anything. I checked it against my fork bolts... I'd say within a lb.... :grin:
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Post by canyncarvr »

Yeah...me too. But it's different for me and foreign owners..... :wink:

After a few decades of wrenching on stuff, I'd sure HOPE one would acquire a feel for 'stuff'.

Stilll...there are always the unlucky few that read the front axle cap nut spec as 'ft/lb' instead of 'in/lb' and without a second thought, start snapping things off.

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Post by Colorado Mike »

The Motion Pro literalmature says if you put the wrench at a 90° ankle, there is no correction factor. So, since I have one and am inherently lazy, that's awl eye needed two set my mined at east.

*edit: Watt?? Eye rain spell Czech.
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Mark W
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Torque is

Post by Mark W »

Torque - the moment of a force; the measure of a force's tendency to produce torsion and rotation about an axis, equal to the vector product of the radius vector from the axis of rotation to the point of application of the force and the force vector. A turning or twisting force.

Therefore, unless the torque wrench is exactly perpendicular to the "spacer" tool, the actual torque value will differ. As soon as you change that angle, you change the radius vector on the wrenching done on the head nut. The axis of rotation changes as the the axis is around the head nut, not the point where the torque wrench is attached to the "spacer" element. If you notice the above explanation, it talks about vectors. Vectors are angles and anytime the vector, in relation to the the axis of rotation., changes, the torque value will need to be adjusted. It wouldn't be much as the length of the spacer isn't all that great but it would change. The "c" side of the triangle wouldn't be all that great from the "a" side.

It would be impossible, in acedemia, to say that the torque value wouldn't be altered when using any of the spacers, even when the torque wrench is in alignment with the "spacer" attachment. I don't think it matters as the reasoning behind equal torqing of nuts is to apply equal "presssure" on the nuts. If you are off by a small amount, it won't matter.

Hey CC that guy that might misread the values on the front axel cap bolts was me. snapped the stud right off.

Mark
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Post by canyncarvr »

When you're figuring the trajectory for Opportunity reach the surface of Mars, 'academia' matters.

A LOT of things effect applied torque values. Consider an extension on your wrench. Yeah...it's attached at a 90º angle, but do you ever NOT support the torque wrench when using an extension? Such 'support' will change torque values, too. You will find that ANY adapters/extensions are discouraged with most torque wrench instructions. Well...I've seen that mentioned more'n once.

It's the gross mis-application that I would be concerned about. Again...attach an adapter to your wrench in such a way as to add inches to the length of the handle and you better have a good idea of what's going on!

Sometimes those axle cap studs snap off with the correct torque applied. :wink:

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Post by Green Hornet »

Read the instructions that come w/the torque wrench. There are variations when using an extension
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Post by bradf »

CC, the answer to the question "is there was a value change" is yes. I believe my set-up using a combo wrench, having the box end 15 degrees tilted up off center, created that change. I tested this on the bench and it was consistant. I figurred it had to be that 15 degrees so I factored it in (for my set-up)
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Post by canyncarvr »

Good enuf!

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