Lowering my 200 with KX forks

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robkdx
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Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by robkdx »

Ive got an H 06 200. I would like it a bit lower as i kinda have to jump over it. Ive got 2000 KX125 forks on it.

An inch would do it. How long do I need to make the dog links?

With the KX forks will it make the head angle to shallow? I already have the clamps about 20mm down the tubes.

I mainly do farm rides and the odd bit of forest.
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Tioli
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Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by Tioli »

I made my own for a 2001'KX 125 hybrid. For that bike 1mm longer equals about 4mm drop.

You can see what I did start of page 18 from the signature link or hear:
http://www.trials.com.au/forum/viewtopi ... &start=340
2001 KX125 with a 1997 KDX Tioli Hp motor

My KDX journey starts at the bottom of this page:
http://www.trials.com.au/forum/viewtopi ... &start=160

Trials.com.au / Forum / All about...me! / My long time friend the prancing horse / page 9
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Re: Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by Julien D »

You can make your own, or use http://www.koubalink.com/kdxinstall.html. Maybe someone who has a set can measure exactly how much longer the 1" drop kouba links are. You're probably going to want to shorten the forks internally to match.
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bradf
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Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by bradf »

A long time ago I went the lowering route and a fly wheel weight to make tight trail riding easier.
First, the fly wheel weight was only slightly noticeable and even then just a little clutch work helped more than the weight.
Second, lowering because I was on my toes when sitting was a total waste of my time and effort. I lost travel that I definitely noticed on both the trail and especially the faster sections (includes MX tracks for hare scrambles and MX playing). Even in the tight sections the only time height really mattered was while cornering 180 switch backs. I learned that my technique sucked and I could have ridden the switch back by doing better at weight control and clutch-throttle-rear brake.

To sum it up, lowering was a total waste of my time. I worked on my piss poor riding techniques and lowering was definitely not a good option.

Getting the auto-clutch installed was the second biggest game changer in managing the bike in tight trails. Between better balance and weight shifting/control and the Recluse auto clutch riding the really tight switch backs is not even a challenge anymore.
'04 220 w/'01 KX250 USD forks, '02 RM125 Showa shock, Rekluse EXP 3.0, LHRB & all RB'd
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Re: Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by ecojbr »

Lower your fork ans shock internally. Its easy to do and wont effect the ratio on your linkage. Had a kx250 I dropped an inch and never regretted it one bit
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Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by Keystone »

if you have USD's that have a slight taper, you can only lower them a little in the tree. Lowering them internally might be the only option. My opinion, but if your riding a bike that doesn't fit you, your technique is already suffering. It's like playing golf with the wrong size club. I've heard the wives tale of keeping your feet on the pegs at all times, so bike too tall doesn't matter. Good in theory. Watch some hare scrambles and how much the really good riders will dab their feet over very rough slow terrain, it's quite often.
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Re: Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by ecojbr »

Me being 5'5" I will have to disagree. The bike being too tall really messes with me. My son, one buddy and I all raced same year kx 250's. Mine lowered one inch. My sons all factory and our buddies had tall seat. The number one difference I found was the cornering ability. The lower center of gravity was amazing for me. On the tall seat bike I had the feeling of falling over in corners. I did notice the lower bike on logs rocks and ruts. Never was it enough to make we want to go back to factory height. As far as travel I never had an issue with that. Now that I am back on a hybrid I have opted to leave it at factory height which is real close to my lowered 250. But the 13lbs of weight difference makes up for the height. It can still be a bear to kick on occassion, but with Ted h rekluse set up I can pick where I need to start at.
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Re: Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by Keystone »

ecojbr wrote:Me being 5'5" I will have to disagree. The bike being too tall really messes with me.
I agree with that. I think the bike should fit you, no matter what. Woods bikes like a KDX do really well lowered for the gnarly stuff! Just get a skid plate.

I'm lucky enough to be able to lower the forks 20mm in front and sag out the rear to get decent ride height on my '93. Seems to do very well.
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Re: Lowering my 200 with KX forks

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So Ricky Carmichael at 5'6" cornered his 450 Suzuki by having it lowered, or knowing how to position how weight and body? Lowering is a crutch and takes away from the bikes suspension. I rode a few times with Rickey (at the same track at the same time and got free pointers from him). The whole issue of saying you need to be able to get your bike lower for comfort by lowering the entire bike so you can get your feet on the ground indicates you need to learn how to ride better. Your feet shouldn't touch the ground. Once the bike is moving the feet only touch the ground to dab the inside foot to possibly get last effort balance. A bike that messes with you is an indication of poor riding skills. Can you track stand? Can you throttle-brake-clutch a 180? If you can, you don't need to lower the bike.
'04 220 w/'01 KX250 USD forks, '02 RM125 Showa shock, Rekluse EXP 3.0, LHRB & all RB'd
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Re: Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by robkdx »

Hmmm, bit to think about here then.
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Re: Lowering my 200 with KX forks

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bradf wrote:So Ricky Carmichael at 5'6" cornered his 450 Suzuki by having it lowered, or knowing how to position how weight and body? Lowering is a crutch and takes away from the bikes suspension. I rode a few times with Rickey (at the same track at the same time and got free pointers from him). The whole issue of saying you need to be able to get your bike lower for comfort by lowering the entire bike so you can get your feet on the ground indicates you need to learn how to ride better. Your feet shouldn't touch the ground. Once the bike is moving the feet only touch the ground to dab the inside foot to possibly get last effort balance. A bike that messes with you is an indication of poor riding skills. Can you track stand? Can you throttle-brake-clutch a 180? If you can, you don't need to lower the bike.
Im not Ricky Carmichael. Im a almost 50 year old fat guy that wants to pluk round some farms and be able to get on my bike without needing a stepladder.

No Im not a good rider, in fact Im rubbish at it.
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Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by Tioli »

I'm over 50 also and often enough we make our own way through the bush exploring. I used to get stuck going over a series of fallen trees or rock piles and end up with nothing on either side and fall over sideways. Just that bit lower made all the difference.
2001 KX125 with a 1997 KDX Tioli Hp motor

My KDX journey starts at the bottom of this page:
http://www.trials.com.au/forum/viewtopi ... &start=160

Trials.com.au / Forum / All about...me! / My long time friend the prancing horse / page 9
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Re: Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by Keystone »

bradf wrote:So Ricky Carmichael at 5'6" cornered his 450 Suzuki by having it lowered, or knowing how to position how weight and body? Lowering is a crutch and takes away from the bikes suspension. I rode a few times with Rickey (at the same track at the same time and got free pointers from him). The whole issue of saying you need to be able to get your bike lower for comfort by lowering the entire bike so you can get your feet on the ground indicates you need to learn how to ride better. Your feet shouldn't touch the ground. Once the bike is moving the feet only touch the ground to dab the inside foot to possibly get last effort balance. A bike that messes with you is an indication of poor riding skills. Can you track stand? Can you throttle-brake-clutch a 180? If you can, you don't need to lower the bike.
http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-test ... or-charity

Here's just one article on how Ricky Carmichael lowers his bikes. It's well documented that he does, you could probably flat-foot his bike. This article states he uses a rear lowering link along with cut sub-frame and shaved seat.
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Re: Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by bradf »

The lowered system for Rickey was years after he was out of being a competitor in Super Cross. The "ride" is a custom set-up now, years after he retired. This is not used by the pros in competition because it takes away from the full ability of the suspension.

I am 56 and until 2005 I could not ride a rut through a high speed corner. I had many other poor habits and absolute terrible techniques for fast and very slow cornering. I live very close to the Milsap trainig track and connected with 2 very good coaches. I had lowering links on at the time and they said get rid of them, they are a crutch. We went to another smaller private track where I learned how to corner correctly (on my modified KDX). We also went to a very tight wooded area so I was forced to shift my weight around on switchback corners in very deep sand, where I had to use more throttle and clutch than by continually putting my foot on the ground. 7 hours of instruction and practice over and over on the corners made it so the bike height was no longer a problem. I no longer fell, or had the front turn under, or slam my foot down and get a knee tweaked and I was riding instead of fighting the bike for balance.

Going back to an earlier comment: Poor riding technique is not conducive to safe and fun riding. Learning to ride better is time/money well spent, less crashes and injury and less physical exhaustion.
'04 220 w/'01 KX250 USD forks, '02 RM125 Showa shock, Rekluse EXP 3.0, LHRB & all RB'd
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Re: Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by bradf »

I talked with a couple of my OLD hare scrambles buddies. One is 66 and the other is 62. They both ride full sized 450 EXCs. One is 5'10" and the other is 5'6". They are A riders and dominate their age group, they always get 1-2 place. In discussing this they believe that if the foot touches the ground there is a danger of injury...sooner or later. The defining issue is whether or not the rider is capable of tight woods/rocks riding dealing with the bike's height which prevents the feet from aiding in balance. If the rider simply can't ride without use of the feet then lowering is the only answer other than getting a smaller bike. They both have been riding since the 60's and both were motorcycle dealers until the mid 90's. The issue of longer suspension for MX created a problem for the trail riders. The manufacturers created "trail" bikes, including the KDX. There is a difficult range of trail bike sizing between 5'5" and 5'8" or the 28"-30" inseam. The question then was do you put them on a smaller 125 or jump up to the 250? They shaved seats but the older out of shape "sitters" hated that. There are a lot of riders riding a bike that is simply to tall for their ability.

If you need to lower the bike (limiting the suspension's ability) for casual trail riding because you absolutely need to use your feet, then that is one option. This is acceptable if you never plan on high speed tracks like hare scrambles, enduro or playing on MX type tracks. The other is get a smaller bike.
'04 220 w/'01 KX250 USD forks, '02 RM125 Showa shock, Rekluse EXP 3.0, LHRB & all RB'd
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Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by Keystone »

I hope I am able to ride into my 60's! I feel pretty good now at 45, but sometimes I feel it in my joints.

Bradf, how tall are you and what bike did you put lowering links on? I am 5'7" and have my E-Series KDX200 lowered about 1". It is a comfortable height for me woods riding. If you are over 5'7" and put lowering links on a KDX, I can understand why the instructor told you to remove them. They are a crutch allowing you to drop your feet off the pegs when it isn't necessary. Your Hare Scramble friends are correct, good way to injure yourself. I bet if you ever followed your riding buddies in some tight Pennsylvania rocky rutted out up-hill single track, you would be surprised how their feet occasionally come off the pegs. This is where the KDX shines and it is where you need a proper fitting bike.

Adjusting a bike to fit your height, weight, etc. is all part of proper technique.

I posted the link (above) because you brought up Ricky Carmichael as an example of 5'6" and proper technique not needing to lower a bike. The bike was ridden and raced by Ricky Carmichael and it was lowered. I don't know much about Ricky Carmichael but if you would ask why he lowered the bike and spared no expense doing it, his reply would probably be, because the bike fits him. Otherwise, I think the bike would have been left at stock height. Either way, the bike was lowered and raced by Ricky Carmichael.

Lowering a bike can be expensive and difficult for some people. Not everyone has the resources of Ricky Carmichael to lower a bike. I think this is why you will see people riding bikes that look like they are borrowed from a 6 foot friend. I can easily ride a bike that my feet don't touch the ground, because my technique is decent. I can also bowl with a too heavy ball and golf with a too long club. But, I think proper fit is also very important. Proper technique and proper fit, you'll ride better and have more fun doing it.
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Re: Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by bradf »

I'm 5'9". My bike is a 04 KDX with 01 KX forks and Showa shortened shock.

This may not be applicable to anyone but me, but I had to learn how to balance. I'm not shattin you one bit, I did not know how to balance!
During a physical therapy session for recuperating from a Dodge pick-up crossing the road and hitting me head-on while riding my Trek Domane, I stood on a balance board that shows any side to side imbalance. I couldn't even stand still on the board. The PT is a real orthopedic doctor who worked with the LSU athletes. He watched in amazement as I struggled to stand looking like a drunken monkey performing intercourse on a football. I was using every major muscle in my body to maintain balance. He taught me to relax the big muscles and allow the fine motor muscles to twitch and correct. Once I learned to relax and quit tensing up to my ear muscles I could stand and squat without the board moving at all. My slow bike riding improved immensely and I can now do a track stand!.
'04 220 w/'01 KX250 USD forks, '02 RM125 Showa shock, Rekluse EXP 3.0, LHRB & all RB'd
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Lowering my 200 with KX forks

Post by SS109 »

I'm somewhere between 5'7"-5'8" with a short 30" inseam. Since adding the '06 forks and RM rear shock my bike is noticeably taller. I had to lean over and slide my butt over when stopped on the stock suspension and even more so now. That said...

I think "comfortable" is kind of a misinterpreted term at times. It could mean just how comfy the seat is, or a person's size vs bike, or the confidence level of one's abilities, and any combination of them. I may be small yet I have confidence in my skills so the added height doesn't bother me at all (actually prefer it!) even in gnarly technical sections so, as a result, I am very comfortable on my bike.

Do whatever it takes to make yourself "comfortable" on your bike. The more so that you are the more you will enjoy riding! That can mean lowering, that could be a softer, taller, shorter seat, and/or really working on your skill set. Just do what it takes!

BTW, I really love the KDX's plush La-Z-Boy seat! :mrgreen:
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