Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

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TwoWheeler
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Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by TwoWheeler »

I have an 87' KDX 200.

Something weird is happening where when you shift, even with the clutch pulled in, the bike will immediately advance to the next gear...almost like the clutch isn't doing what it should.

And it kind of "creeps"...when you're in neutral, and put it into gear, even with the clutch lever pulled in, it starts to move ever so slightly forward.

I'm assuming "something" in the clutch mechanism is not working correctly. But here's my challenge. I've gone through everything, and it all "looks" fine. Cable is new and adjusted properly, has fresh trans oil, basket has no cracks and is nice and smooth, plates/steels are fine. I also had a friend mechanic take it all apart this weekend and look it over, and all appears to look fine.

What would you recommend?? Maybe new clutch springs? Or new plates/steels?

Or could this possibly be something else that's causing it?

The bike was built by a seasoned rider and the bike is in mostly top-notch shape with not a lot of time on most of the bike. The rest of the bike runs like a dream.

It's possible that the clutch springs or the clutch assembly could have a lot of time on it, but it "appears" to look like they're in good condition.

Thanks for any thoughts!!
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by royadams »

Adjust the cable
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by TwoWheeler »

That's the 1st thing we tried. We've adjusted it numerous times...we've tried every possible way that it can be adjusted. We even took it off and installed a new cable.

It seems to occur after heating up. When the bike is cold, it doesn't happen or is very slight. But after 5 minutes of warming up, it starts acting weird...almost like something is expanding with the heat and causing iit???

Thx!

We got a doozy here :)
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Jim B
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by Jim B »

Check the parts diagram to make sure you have the clutch assembled properly. (I.e., you didn't leave out a thrust washer.)

What kind of trans oil are you using?
Last edited by Jim B on 02:05 pm Aug 25 2015, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by TwoWheeler »

Great thinking Jim!

There's a question of where the Thrust Washer should be. I need to get a hold of a parts diagram.

Presently, the thrust washer behind the clutch basket might be on backward!? It's presently in-front of the spacer, and I think it should be behind it? (Unfortunately, the bike is in my buddy's garage, and he's in Poland for two weeks...so I can't switch it around and test it for a few weeks).

But this could be the issue!!

I'm presently using Bel-Ray Gear Saver 80W trans oil. I'm going to try Redline 80W all-sythetic gear oil with shockproof once we button her back up. You think either one of those are OK for this bike?
Thanks!!!
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by Jim B »

TwoWheeler wrote:There's a question of where the Thrust Washer should be. I need to get a hold of a parts diagram.

I'm presently using Bel-Ray Gear Saver 80W trans oil. I'm going to try Redline 80W all-sythetic gear oil with shockproof once we button her back up. You think either one of those are OK for this bike?
Just look online. Most, if not all, Kawasaki dealers should have the parts diagrams on their website.

Sounds a little thick, but I doubt that's causing the problem. Why not just use Rotella 15w-40 non-synthetic? It's a lot less money than the fancy-schmancy gear oils, and works pretty well for me. (And, from what I've read, a lot of other people.)
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by TwoWheeler »

I found a 87' KDX 200 clutch parts diagram at RonAyers.com: http://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/kaw/ ... 8ee/clutch

Yea, I guess I'm at the mercy of what the local shops stock/push, and that's what they typically stock and recommend. It's expensive, and I've heard many riders recommend Rotella, so one day I'll get smart and switch!
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by Jim B »

Do you think it's assembled incorrectly?

Yeah, the Rotella's fairly inexpensive. I think they sell it in smaller containers if you want to try it. WalMart is probably the best place to buy it.
Last edited by Jim B on 02:28 pm Aug 25 2015, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by TwoWheeler »

I think it could be assembled incorrectly, but that diagram is tough for me to read. And I'm trying to think back to what exactly my set-up looked like, but I know the Thurst Washer was INFRONT of the spacer, and I think it might need to be BEHIND it??

So plan "A" is to switch the thrust washer around when my buddy's back in town, in about two weeks. As a back-up, "plan B", I have a new clutch kit assembly, complete with new discs, plates, and springs on order just in case we need it. ($50 shipped on eBay). http://www.ebay.com/itm/380882990457

Thanks! I can't wait to start riding this bike!
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by Jim B »

TwoWheeler wrote:...I know the Thurst Washer was INFRONT of the spacer, and I think it might need to be BEHIND it??
Looks to me like there should be one on either side of the spacer. Sometimes the inner one "sticks" to the bearing because of the oil film in between the two parts. (In other words, the inner one could be there (stuck to the bearing) and you might not realize/notice it.)
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by TwoWheeler »

Good call. Well, it's very possible that both are there, one on each side of the spacer and we just didn't notice it...as we thought about this possibility after we wrapped up the other day...so we're mostly going off of memory.

But, it's also a good possibility that one of those washers is missing, and if so, that would make sense that it would perform badly, especially after heating up as the components expand a bit. Thanks again Jim! We'll know in a few weeks and I'll post anything of interest to others here once we solve this little mystery!
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by 6 Riders »

I tried using the Gear Saver in my KDX.....bike didn't like it at all. I use cheap Type F transfluid from WalMart now and it performs great. I have in the past used really expensive transfluid, but I don't notice a difference between wallyworld brand and the expensive stuff, with the exception of needing to change the oil way more often.
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by KDXGarage »

Gear Saver worked great for me!

Any chance the basket is notched? Creeping usually means basket is notched, as best I remember. The plates don't get to slide together / apart properly.
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Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by Jim B »

TwoWheeler wrote:...basket has no cracks and is nice and smooth...
I took this to mean it's not notched, but I guess I'm not 100% sure what he means by "smooth". :blink:
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Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by KDXohio »

Jim B wrote:
TwoWheeler wrote:...basket has no cracks and is nice and smooth...
I took this to mean it's not notched, but I guess I'm not 100% sure what he means by "smooth". :blink:
That's how i took it as well

Warped plates maybe?
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by TwoWheeler »

Jim B., KDX Ohio, sorry for the slow response, I was riding out at Sam Houston National Forest this weekend...great riding there!! By "smooth" basket I meant the edges didn't need to be filed down. The basket is used, but looks real good overall. No obvious cracks, abnormal wear, or anything that would cause an issue. I purchased a new clutch kit off eBay last week with new plates, steals, and springs. I plan to have it swapped out in about a week or two when my buddy is back from Poland. Keeping fingers crossed!! :) Thx!
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by TwoWheeler »

OK, we might have solved the mystery! We took apart the clutch again and looked at it more carefully and realized it had 3 thrust washers. It should only have two.

So we removed one of the washers and buttoned her back up.

It was too late to test ride her, so we'll have to do that later in the week. I'll let y'all know.
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by TwoWheeler »

I took it for a test drive up/down my street today, and she felt great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna take her out for a long trail ride this weekend to test it more fully, but so far it's looking like she's likely fixed.

Thanks to Jim B. for helping to crack this nut!!!!
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Re: Creeping clutch problem...Thoughts?? Thx!

Post by Jim B »

Glad you got it figured out! :supz:
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