I am so very confused now-------------

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Deseret Rider
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I am so very confused now-------------

Post by Deseret Rider »

I have been following the conversation on the topic "Stopped shifting" ----that series of posts identify a problem that occurs as a result of a broken "pin" can fall into the inner or outer cases. Those posting in that topic have presented an excellent series of pictures and videos. Somehow I was of the impression that the 'Pin" in question was involved in the 'KIPS" system ? I wished to identify the source of that pin---where it came from ---or where it broke off of? So---I went to another site which tells and shows, step by step, pretty much all you would want to know about the "KIPS" system including a picture of all the parts involved in that system. I cannot find the 'Pin" that was being discussed in the "Stopped shifting" topic. So now I am confused as 'heck'----------Can somebody un-confuse me---perhaps show a picture or a diagram identifying the source of that "pin'? See here for the 'step by step' instruction and pictures that I referred to above:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/657765 ... to-kdx200/
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Tedh98
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Re: I am so very confused now-------------

Post by Tedh98 »

p/n 13236 is the source of the "pin". That assembly bolts to the shaft, but the "pin" can break off. In his video, you can see the part that is still held on by the two allen heads.



http://www.ronayers.com/Engine-Covers12-C406547.aspx
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Re: I am so very confused now-------------

Post by Tedh98 »

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Deseret Rider
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Re: I am so very confused now-------------

Post by Deseret Rider »

Oh-------pic worth a thousand words. Does that pin interface with the plastic gear shown back on the 'stopped shifting' topic? I surmise that it would engage a centrufugal driven device of some kind?
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bufftester
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Re: I am so very confused now-------------

Post by bufftester »

Yes, that pin is attached to the end of the KIPS shaft (13234A) on the right side of the engine, at the lower end in the clutch cover. It drives the claw gear (16085) at the top of the shaft which interfaces with the KIPS valve train. The pin (13236) rides between the two spacers (92026) in the centrifugal actuator mechanism.
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Last edited by bufftester on 02:49 pm Sep 06 2014, edited 1 time in total.
Shadowdev
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Re: I am so very confused now-------------

Post by Shadowdev »

Hi DesertRider & All,
Yes as both Tedh98 (Picture of actual part installed) and Bufftester (Schematic) have shown the pin does interface with the governor gear assembly. Take a look at the pictures below for hopefully an even more clear perspective. These pictures are of MY parts so everything BUT the pin assembly (shown in Tedh98 picture above) is seen. I unbolted and removed the rest of that part which was still bolted to the KIPS actuator shaft.

You’re question however has caused me to reflect on ‘Why??’ my governor lever actually broke to being with. As already stated in the ‘Stopped Shiftinghttp://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopi ... 77&t=16503 thread, the bike is coming into its 18th year and that’s a valid excuse but in reality it must have been stressed regardless. Does that imply that my KIPS valve system is not operating smoothly and is instead possibly carbon caked and running tight which would put unnecessary stress on that part… including the new one which will be installed? Something I’ll be checking out for sure…

The image below shows the tail end of the KIPS actuator shaft and the unscrewed allen bolt(s) where my pin (or what was left of it) was located. From this viewpoint if you can imagine the Governor Lever (proper name) pin secured to the shaft, would actually ride in the gap space shown between the spring side and bell housing side of the governor gear assembly.

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The image below shows the governor gear assembly removed from the case and displayed on its side. The pencil tip shows the gap more clearly. The spring on the plastic gear (right) side of the governor gear assembly is ‘spring loading’ the gapped assembly on the left side. With enough spin the gapped part of the assembly including the gap space itself moves left and right which moves the governor lever ‘pin’ from left to right. This in turn rotates the actuator shaft and thus the toothed tab at the head of the shaft and so the gear found behind the cover marked KIPS on the clutch side….Whew…who writes this stuff?
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The image below (for posterity, as I know you already know what it looks like) shows the clutch side (basket cover removed) of the bike and the actuator shaft with KIPS cover removed at upper right of cylinder head.
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The image below shows a close up of the top of the KIPS actuator shaft with the reverse threaded nut holding the toothed tab which rotates the KIPS valve assembly gear. Side Note: This reiterates the reason to support the shaft from turning when removing this reverse threaded nut, as to NOT stress or break the governor lever ‘pin’.
In total… it’s a good system but with so many moving parts…bound to fail at some point with Occam rolling in his grave… ;).
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Re: I am so very confused now-------------

Post by Deseret Rider »

All of this excellent dialog---with suburb pictures in illustration---has unravelled much of the mystery of KIPS.
The last question posed---"What causes the pin to break?" Seems likely that twisting the wrong direction on the top nut would be the culprit---and so I wonder if your case is typical---It isn't the pin itself that breaks--it's the piece that holds the pin and which is bolted to the shaft . Your KIPS system may ---or may not be---gunkud up but I would not think that would a factor in the history of broken pins-----
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Re: I am so very confused now-------------

Post by Shadowdev »

Hi DR,
Yeah, if the shaft is not supported then it’s definitely possible to weaken or break the pin when removing the reverse nut. But if the KIPS valve system at the cylinder head is gunked & difficult to operate; consider that the driving force of that system is done through the pin & governor gear assembly. So it’s the Governor Lever ‘pin’ that ‘actuates’ the KIPS valve and so would certainly stress the pin part as it tries hard to make the KIPS valve assembly operate.
Make sense?
SD
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Re: I am so very confused now-------------

Post by bufftester »

The most common reason for failure is exactly that...people not realizing that the shaft nut at the top is LEFT HAND THREADED and not supporting it with a second wrench. So when they crank on it the wrong way it bends the pin assembly which eventually leads to failure. The other culprit is TIME...that assembly is basically in constant motion for the life of the bike, and as such will eventually fail. A bad design? not necessarily, just a very stressed part of the engine. What I find more interesting is that given that even the newest KDX's are almost 10 years old, and the bulk of those being ridden are closer to 15-20, is that there aren't more failure points in the motor. That suggests pretty good design. Throw in the fact that nearly everyone who has had a pin failure was still able to ride the bike out of the woods and it's easy to see why our forum is still so active! :grin:
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Re: I am so very confused now-------------

Post by Shadowdev »

Well said BT... I may have to recant my 'Occam' comment (which was just a quip anyway & not serious), and not to get off topic but the KDX is really just a fantastic machine on the whole. This bike always starts with a kick or two and pulls like a bad dog... Years of that type of experience, aside from the occasional breakdown, how can you go wrong, even with a bike that's coming up on 20 soon enough. As you've said, it's an active forum which speaks well for the KDX family of bikes.
Keep on Keepin on...
SD
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