1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Tedh98 » 12:17 pm Sep 04 2014

Looks like there still is more of the pin in there. The thin diameter section of the pin is almost 13mm long.

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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby 6 Riders » 06:22 pm Sep 04 2014

Rocky mountain ATV has 6 of them in stock for $8.26 each. Shipping would be $7.00 but i f you can justify new linkage bearings and a set of tie downs, they'll ship for free (free shipping on orders over $100). They will also have them to you in about 3 days!
newbbewb wrote:^what he said.

masterblaster wrote:Man 6 riders you rock.

*side note...I'm drunk, so try to read what I'm trying to say, instead of what I actually type
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Tedh98 » 06:26 pm Sep 04 2014

And if you are splitting the cases, new bearings and seals only make sense.

There you go - easily spent $100 for you.
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby 6 Riders » 06:45 pm Sep 04 2014

Tedh98 wrote:And if you are splitting the cases, new bearings and seals only make sense.

There you go - easily spent $100 for you.

:blink: :lol:
newbbewb wrote:^what he said.

masterblaster wrote:Man 6 riders you rock.

*side note...I'm drunk, so try to read what I'm trying to say, instead of what I actually type
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Shadowdev » 11:56 pm Sep 04 2014

Hi Ted (Thanks for the pic, just what I needed), Hi Riders, & all others…
Yeah, this pin part fragment is certainly shorter than the one in your pic and by inspection shows it's not broken off but was ‘ground down’ in the case (tiny bits & pieces). I can tell because the grinding wear is evident at the end of the pin. It also means that most likely this part has been broken for some time which would explain some noises but the bike has always run & shifted well, until the other day, and even then it ran great & I rode it home in first, in true KDX form. Take a look at the pic below, you can see the pin is ground smooth.

Long story short (pardon the pun), I’m inclined to believe that these large part fragments and tiny bits & pieces would very nearly complete the entire Governor Lever part.

As far as the smoothness of the shift drum, well, I don’t know, but am more hesitant to split the case rather than install a strong magnet oil plug and do a few oil changes in a row to see what is sticks to it..….. yup… that’s the ticket…

Rest assured, had I NOT found the pin, this case would certainly have come apart per your solid advice. I know that many of you would split the case without a second thought and may think me slacking for not doing so, as you've said, it's nearly 18 years old, fair enough, sooner or later, you're right.

What do you think, do I have a case.... about... not splitting the.... case??

I have parts on order.
Many Thanks Again,
SD

Pin side of Governor Lever showing grinding wear.
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Last edited by Shadowdev on 12:18 am Sep 05 2014, edited 1 time in total.
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1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Deseret Rider » 12:16 am Sep 05 2014

I have removed my post here----I had wondered what would explain how that pin got ground away in that manner without any damage evident on the 'band' ----but the question is moot---and called for supposition that really doesn't matter anyway. Good topic though----lots of good information came of it.
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Shadowdev » 01:21 am Sep 05 2014

When I first took everything apart, the outside of the clutch basket was cut up a bit and the main crank gear definitely showed some rough spots.
I can say that on the last ride I did notice the bike starting to pull a little with the clutch lever in and when it was not running with the clutch in I could barely push it. So chances are really good that finely ground debris got caught up in the plates as well.
The bike is going to be apart for the next week until parts arrive...
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Tedh98 » 05:32 am Sep 05 2014

Shadowdev wrote:What do you think, do I have a case.... about... not splitting the....case??


If you arent going to split the cases, how about at least flushing things out with a solvent or premix/gas?

That will certainly be better than just running a magnet and changing the oil. Remember that not everything that ground up in there was steel.
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Shadowdev » 08:34 am Sep 05 2014

Yeah, will do. I have plenty of pre-mix... What would you advise, should I just pour it in through the small clutch side oil access holes and shake the bike around type of thing?
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Tedh98 » 09:17 am Sep 05 2014

I would also run it through the gears in case something is lodged in there.
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby bufftester » 10:02 pm Sep 05 2014

Shadowdev wrote:What do you think, do I have a case.... about... not splitting the.... case??


You can ALWAYS make a case for or against a course of action :lol: Nowadays I would likely split the cases and do a bunch of (in some people's opinion) needless preventative maintenance (because 25 years of aircraft maintenance has ground it into my DNA lol), but when I was much younger (and poorer, and more impatient, and lighter, and indestructible, and better looking :lie: ) I probably would have done exactly what you are suggesting. In the end it comes down to what level of risk you are willing to take. Just keep in mind that there's not a lot of gap in gears, and it won't take much of that 10mm of missing pin to drain your wallet, and you still have issues with the shift turret that are not resolved...

Regardless, take pics, these kinds of threads have benefit for a lot of folks who lurk here, and your photos are a lot better than any I take :mrgreen:
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Shadowdev » 02:32 am Sep 06 2014

Thanks Ted, Thanks Bufftester,
I just stick with ‘Better Looking’, heheh… O Yeah…
With regards to the governor lever pin, the reason for showing the ground down end was to bolster confidence that there was in fact Not a large piece of it floating around in the tranny side but instead ‘ground into itty bitty fragments’ which would ‘flush out’. That said, I’m certainly going to flush it out really well before rebuilding as I have another week to wait for parts. As for the turret issue…. I’m just going to go really gently and only show my ‘Good Looking Side’ until confident… You can dig it, right??
However a thought arose; in another thread posted by DesertRider [I am so very confused now-------------http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=16516 ] which both of you have contributed, discusses the governor lever ‘pin’, it’s location, and function. But it also prompted me to ask why my part broke in the first place. Yeah the bike is older, but obviously something stressed it to failure. So the question is what? I can only really imagine that the actual KIPS valve assembly and cylinder head mechanism may be carbon packed and running tight. As the entire ‘actuation’ function of the KIPS valve system in the cylinder head seems to originate with the governor gear assembly and governor lever ‘pin’ in the clutch side case, it’s only logical to conclude that a tight binding KIPS valve system would certainly stress that pin, including the new one to be installed.
I figure to simply turn the KIPS gear in the cylinder head, which I’ve carefully guarded as to make sure it did not move as to reassemble properly, but I don’t know how to adjust that system and haven’t yet searched it out.

It’s all just a thought but figured it may help someone else. I’ll take pics, maybe a video too.
If anyone has a link to a good KIPS adjustment thread (Pictures?), that would be great.
Thanks again,
SD
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Julien D » 07:53 am Sep 06 2014

I think because of the way it is sprung, the action of the governor alone should not be enough to destroy the pin like that. I suppose it's possible, but so far the only way I have ever see that pin broken is when someone removes that LH threaded nut from the top of the shaft without supporting the rod.
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Tedh98 » 08:51 am Sep 06 2014

Shadowdev wrote:If anyone has a link to a good KIPS adjustment thread (Pictures?), that would be great.


I have some pictures here: KIPS set-up
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Deseret Rider » 09:28 am Sep 06 2014

And this may also help
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/657765 ... to-kdx200/
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Shadowdev » 11:47 am Sep 06 2014

Tedh98 wrote:
Shadowdev wrote:If anyone has a link to a good KIPS adjustment thread (Pictures?), that would be great.


I have some pictures here: KIPS set-up



Great! Thank you Ted..
SD
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Shadowdev » 11:48 am Sep 06 2014

Deseret Rider wrote:And this may also help
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/657765 ... to-kdx200/


Hey DR,
This link didn't work for me.

SD
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Shadowdev » 11:55 am Sep 06 2014

Julien D wrote:I think because of the way it is sprung, the action of the governor alone should not be enough to destroy the pin like that. I suppose it's possible, but so far the only way I have ever see that pin broken is when someone removes that LH threaded nut from the top of the shaft without supporting the rod.


Hi Julien,
I thought the same thing but once I realized that the entire KIPS valve system at the cylinder head is 'Actuated' by the Governor Lever pin and should the valve system be difficult to actually operate, then the pin would be under real stress trying to make the KIPS valves move.

SD
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby bufftester » 03:06 pm Sep 06 2014

As Julien mentioned, and I posted in the other thread, the most common failure mode is not supporting the LEFT HAND threaded nut at the top of the shaft, thereby bending the pin assembly and leading to breakage. The rotating moment of that assembly is pretty small and likely a clogged up KIPS would not be much of a factor. The E-series motor have issues with KIPS valve gears chewing themselves up, but I think that is a separate issue from the governor pin. Great thread, lots of good info, IMO a good candidate for a sticky in the General Q&A forum!
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Re: 1997 KDX200 - Stopped Shifting

Postby Shadowdev » 07:46 pm Sep 06 2014

Hi BT,
Yeah, fair enough, and everyone should know that I'm speaking from ignorance on the matter as I've Never dealt with this type of problem, nor am that experienced with the KIPS system, however the link above from Tedh98 is really good (with pictures) for 'Timing the KIPS System'.

I'll certainly inspect and see what sort of ease in which the KIPS main gear at the cylinder turns and will keep everyone posted on the repair...

Thank you all,
SD
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