KIPS Help

[Mayor Brap Brap]

Oh $#@& me! Whoever installed the o-ring before me put it in backwards. When I put it in the way it was supposed to go, I could easily turn the system by hand and all three valves opened and shut. Case closed...for now. Now I've got to jet the damn thing.

[Mayor Brap Brap]

Okay, after all that, the KIPS is still getting stuck. Could it be the little spring pressing on the ball that pushes on the cam? That thing is pretty tight and I had to kind of force it back closed once it fully opened.

[scheckaet]

have you tried to remove it and try to actuate everything? if it goes smooth then problem solved.
if it binds, then make sure there is no crud where the subvalve seats.

[Mayor Brap Brap]

have you tried to remove it and try to actuate everything? if it goes smooth then problem solved.
if it binds, then make sure there is no crud where the subvalve seats.

I honestly don't know why Kawasaki put an o-ring in that shaft. The operation is better, but it still gets caught up at three points in the rotation. The governor and everything else works really well. But I just know that damn o-ring is causing this, and I've already buttoned the bike back up. Can I go without the o-ring? Looks like I'll be taking the top end off again tomorrow. Oh joy.

[iswenson]

I had to put that governor in a few times, as I didn't have it all the way engaged onto the teeth of the mating shaft. I thought it was all the way in, and even tightened down on the 10mm nut that retains it, but it would make the KIPS almost impossible to turn. THEN I realized the gov. gear was not fully seated onto the KIPS shaft and was not really clocked correctly to interface with the mating gear. I took it back apart, oiled it, and reassembled. PRESTO, everything turned like a dream.

ian

[Mayor Brap Brap]

Okay, it's definitely something wrong with the gear under the right side cover. With the paw gear off, everything is like butter. This means I don't have to take the top end off! But what could be causing this binding? I already had the cover off and everything looked fine.

[iswenson]

Just to be clear, you are calling the 'paw gear' the gear that is retained onto the shaft with the left hand nut, correct? If so, when that gear is connected to the rest of the KIPS and the left hand bolt is tightened, I am unable to actuate the valves on mine as well. I don't think it is supposed to turn freely with that gear hooked up.

[scheckaet]

google kips activation and see how it operates under normal condition when the engine is running. At this point you might read too much into a problem that isn't there...

[Mayor Brap Brap]

Okay, it's working, but only to a degree. The valves are not shutting all the way. It's getting about halfway to 3/4 shut and just sitting there. When I park it, I can manually put a 10mm on the cam nut and lightly bring it back to full closed--probably a 1/4-inch of movement. When I rev it up, I see the cam move all the way forward, and then almost "click" back to the middle at idle. Sometimes it goes a little further, but never fully closed.

I have taken the top end apart and cleaned everything to new like condition. Without the pawl gear engaged, everything can be twisted easily by hand with no binding. I even took the right side cover off again to check and inspect everything, and it all looked fine. The pawl gear is matched correctly to the shaft gear, as are all the other shafts and gears. It looks nothing like this:

[youtube][/youtube]

At this point, I don't know what the hell is going on.

[scheckaet]

seems to open and close normally to me

[Mayor Brap Brap]

seems to open and close normally to me

That's not my video. It's an example of what my bike is NOT doing. I just rode it and it feels much better than before, until I go way down in low gear and it stumbles a little bit, most likely due to the valves only closing 3/4 of the way. I really don't get it. Is there some obvious thing I'm missing here?

[scheckaet]

[scheckaet]

how do you know the valve aren't closing while you ride?
Are you sure it's not a jetting issue now? bog stutter weak low end erratic throttle response...

[Mayor Brap Brap]

Because every time I come back in from a ride, I pull the flathead cover off and the cam is about 1/4 turn away from being fully closed. It's like there's a speedbump there preventing it from shutting all the way. It pops forward quickly at high RPM, but is very slow to come back down, almost like a second hand on a clock. I should just take a video. I'm about ready to sell this thing and go back to a four stroke.

Here's my bike. You can see two binding spots along the rotation. The first one is overcome, probably by the cam's momentum, but it can't get past the second one, as you will see. At the end, I turn the cam back to where it should be. I also have the ball and spring removed. Click the link to see the video.

http://s931.photobucket.com/user/Thunde ... 5.mp4.html

[bufftester]

Oh $#@& me! Whoever installed the o-ring before me put it in backwards.

Maybe you should bitch slap the guy who did the work:

I've had this thing down to the crank, and everything has been built back up carefully and meticulously...

IMo I would pull the engine and disassemble the top end. Check the KIPS pieces (look for bent rods, missing gear teeth, ensure your index marks are visible, valves in correctly-some versions of the print manual have them backwards-etc.). Barring something installed wrong the system is fairly simple and pretty fault tolerant.

[Mayor Brap Brap]

Oh $#@& me! Whoever installed the o-ring before me put it in backwards.

Maybe you should bitch slap the guy who did the work:

I've had this thing down to the crank, and everything has been built back up carefully and meticulously...

IMo I would pull the engine and disassemble the top end. Check the KIPS pieces (look for bent rods, missing gear teeth, ensure your index marks are visible, valves in correctly-some versions of the print manual have them backwards-etc.). Barring something installed wrong the system is fairly simple and pretty fault tolerant.

TRUST ME, I am exceedingly meticulous when it comes to mechanics. I fondled each and every KIPS part and everything looked perfect. Every dot lines with the corresponding notch. When I hand-twisted the system, it effortlessly opened and closed the ports. It's only when I connect the pawl gear that it's sticky, and I've had the right cover off twice to double check the governor gear and pin, which both look brand new. Did you see the video? Maybe since the cylinder recently got a nikasil coating, the KIPS system just has to break in.

[6 Riders]

Well, I can't comment on a "for sure" basis, but it seems to me that it's time to check the "actuator" thingy under the clutch cover, the pawl gear and the shaft that the pawl gear is mounted to. If he screwed up the O-Ring, he may have bent that shaft or the little "bar" at the end of the shaft that is often broken off.
One thing that you MUST remember, look at the WHOLE system. If the gears in the head seem right, then what about everything else?

Just saying, if the pawl being connected seems to be the problem, start there and go backwards. BTW look for a small crack in the inner clutch cover, right near where the shaft travels through it.

[Mayor Brap Brap]

Well, I can't comment on a "for sure" basis, but it seems to me that it's time to check the "actuator" thingy under the clutch cover, the pawl gear and the shaft that the pawl gear is mounted to. If he screwed up the O-Ring, he may have bent that shaft or the little "bar" at the end of the shaft that is often broken off.
One thing that you MUST remember, look at the WHOLE system. If the gears in the head seem right, then what about everything else?

Just saying, if the pawl being connected seems to be the problem, start there and go backwards. BTW look for a small crack in the inner clutch cover, right near where the shaft travels through it.

I will check for a crack, but I had the cover off twice and double-checked everything from the pawl gear down to the governor. I'm at a loss and tomorrow is the trip. At this point, is it possible to run a KDX with a slow governor that doesn't close the valves fully?

[bufftester]

One thing that has come up recently with another member on here when they had their cylinder replated they noted that some of the plating was interfering with the smooth operation of the main KIPS valve. Unfortunately, to check that would require taking the motor out and removing the cylinder.
problems with KIPS sticking after plating
other plating problems

[Mayor Brap Brap]

One thing that has come up recently with another member on here when they had their cylinder replated they noted that some of the plating was interfering with the smooth operation of the main KIPS valve. Unfortunately, to check that would require taking the motor out and removing the cylinder.
problems with KIPS sticking after plating
other plating problems

The problem is that I was able to spin the kips shaft without the pawl gear connected with no problem at all, smooth as butter. The problem only arises when I connect the pawl gear, and I've had the right cover off twice to check that, and everything looked perfect. No cracks, no bent pin, straight shaft. I am truly baffled.

The question now is does the KIPS have to break in so to speak, and will I do any major damage to the engine if the KIPS valves can only close to 1/4 turn away from fully shut? Have a look at the link to that video I posted.