Adjusting the KIPS engagement RPM

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RyanKeyte
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Adjusting the KIPS engagement RPM

Post by RyanKeyte »

I am am wondering if anyone has ever tried to adjust the RPM where the KIPS valve actuates on an H series bike? It has accured to me that the govorner works with centrifugal force using 4 x .3125 steel balls. If someone were to use tungsten carbide balls (like some do in rekluses and dyna rings) could you bring the RMP where the KIPS turns on down??? Just an idea..
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Joshmcmillan
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Re: Adjusting the KIPS engagement RPM

Post by Joshmcmillan »

I thought you change it slightly by adjusting the number of washers on the bolt that holds the steel ball in.
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diymirage
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Re: Adjusting the KIPS engagement RPM

Post by diymirage »

they also sell (or sold, might be hard to get by nowadays) a set of springs that go on the actuator that make it harder or softer thereby changing at what time the KIPS open

the adding or removing of washers is also a way

there is a third way BUT it has slipped my mind
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


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-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
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diymirage
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Re: Adjusting the KIPS engagement RPM

Post by diymirage »

found it
diymirage wrote:between 4 bikes you should have at least one manual (you can download one from the main page on our website)


first of, here is some info on the KIPS
http://www.justkdx.dirtrider.net/kips.html


going with your assumption that it is in fact the KIPS and not something else that's causing the difference (sprockets maybe?) here is something to consider...KIPS can be tuned
as a matter of fact, there are 3 ways to tune your KIPS, and if you did not buy all 4 of these bikes brand new it could pay off to see if the one bike has had any of these mods done different from the others

the first way (if I remember correctly) is to remove the round cap with the slot that sits on front of the KIPS cover on the left hand side of the bike
below that you will find a 10 MM bolt (if I remember correctly) which has 2 copper washers, a spring and a ball underneath it
this is a pre-tension mechanism
if you remove one washer (leaving only one) the valve will stay shut longer giving you a more mellow powerband (good for tight single track or beginners)
or, if you want it to hit harder, you can remove the spring and ball altogether

if it were my issue between the 4 bikes I would start there because it takes about 30 seconds and it will make it obvious if the KIPS is working or not)

the other two ways to tune the KIPS are a little more involved, for starters you can adjust the resonator chamber volume by adding a spacer (not sure who makes them but they are out there) this should give you more low end torque but lower maximum RPM
it should be easy enough to spot if any of the bikes have a spacer like this installed by looking at the resonator cover and seeing if there is anything other then a regular gasket between there and the cylinder (the resonator cover is on the left hand side of the bike, just behind the slotted cap we mentioned before)

the third way to adjust them is a little more involved
moose racing makes a KIPS tuning kit that basically just consists of 2 different KIPS springs one softer for a quicker, harder hitting opening of the valves and one stiffer for a later, smoother opening of the valves

having said all that, im gonna say one more thing again, if they were mine, I would start by counting teeth on the sprockets to ensure all 4 bikes has the same final drive
in order to install these (or see if they have been installed you need to remove the inner clutch cover

and if the context is needed, here is the thread that came from

http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopi ... 77&t=14573
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
robkdx
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Adjusting the KIPS engagement RPM

Post by robkdx »

Being interested in this, what does removing the check ball and spring do? I think ive worked it out but would like another view on it.

And is it worth doing?
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bufftester
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Re: Adjusting the KIPS engagement RPM

Post by bufftester »

Keep in mind that you are only going to change it a few hundred RPMs, and most of the change is simply in how easily or hard the valve opens. Regardless, the other half of the equation is the CDI which is mapped to retard the timing at 6k to match up with the opening of the KIPS. Opening it way early will net you no benefit, and may actually negatively impact performance.
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Adjusting the KIPS engagement RPM

Post by robkdx »

I will find out tomorrow.
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Re: Adjusting the KIPS engagement RPM

Post by Jaguar »

Here is a graph of measured CDI timing at various RPM that dispels any wrong notions concerning it changing timing in harmony with the KIPS. The green curve is the standard one and the blue is with extra timing curve capacitance added inside the circuit.
http://www.dragonfly75.com/moto/images/KDXtiming.gif
Performance CDI -- KDX motocross mods -- the SR KDX -- expansion chamber analysis---> http://www.dragonfly75.com/moto/
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bufftester
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Re: Adjusting the KIPS engagement RPM

Post by bufftester »

Not really sure where your numbers come from, but certainly don't mesh with Kawasaki's which says CDI adjusts timing from 6BTDC at idle to 21BTDC at 6k, then at 6k retards back to base (6 BTDC). 6K was chosen because that is the approx point at which the greatest gains are made by opening the KIPS, effectively shortening the stroke of the motor, lowering compression and improving top end power. Retarding the ignition at that point helps to get maximum burn while transferring heat from the piston to the expansion chamber. The CDI absolutely does change timing in harmony with the KIPS, in fact it was specifically designed to do so. The more accurate statement is that the CDI and KIPS work together, but are not physically linked or triggered by each other. The KIPS governor is designed to open at 6k, so they designed the CDI to retard at that point.
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Re: Adjusting the KIPS engagement RPM

Post by chkdx »

Hmmm, I'm thinking that Jaguar chose to actually TEST the cdi's timing curve, rather than blindly accept Kawasaki's published info. Visit his site, he's a sharp guy and has really looked into this. Nope, I don't personally know him and haven't purchased any of his products (although a few people on this forum have), but I do plan to purchase his cdi in the future.
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