Clutch won't engage! HELP!

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morganid
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Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by morganid »

This morning I hopped on my bike to head to class. Started just fine, Pulled the clutch in, shifted into first and as I let the lever out, nothing happened. The cable had slack in it. I followed the cable to the little lever on the out side of the motor and same story. I can move the lever back and forth with my hand no problem. The bike sounds fine, but the clutch won't engage.

Any ideas?

I noticed when I got the bike that there was a very slight noise change with the motor noise with the clutch. Keeping the bike running, in neutral, there was a slight noise that went away when I pulled the clutch in.

Thanks!

(2003 KDX 220)
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Tyl3r
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by Tyl3r »

did the cable break? Maybe something is binding up a little in the clutch case and the cable was able to overcome it, but finally broke or stretched too far? After making sure your cable is ok, I'd pull the clutch cover and move the lever on the outside of the case and get a look at whats going on. What trans oil do you run? Change it often?
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Joshmcmillan
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by Joshmcmillan »

First things first, while you're not touching the clutch lever, push down on the top of the shaft coming out the top of the outer clutch cover. I've had it lift up slightly and come out of the hole on the inside.
07' CR450X (Main Bike)
07' KX125 (Completed basket case rebuild, for sale)
88' KDX200 (Not sure yet, runs but with rattly top end)
91' CBR250RR
Old Bikes: 97' KDX200, 00' RM125, 85' XR350, 94' KDX200, 02' CR80, 82' XT250, 98' CT200
morganid
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by morganid »

I'm sure it's not the cable. The lever that the cable pulls on has the same lack-of-tension that the lever has. With the bike running, I can shift gears just fine with no grinding or noise. I just can't go anywhere since the clutch won't engage.

I'll try pushing on the lever when I get home. I'm a college student and just found out that I have a 6 page paper due on Wed. :shock: I won't have much time for my bike for a week or so. :toimonster:
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bufftester
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by bufftester »

That does not sound good, as generally a failure of the cable, or even of the clutch springs/actuator/spring plate results in the exact opposite...a clutch that doesn't disengage (which is rideable enough to get you home at least) You'll need to pull the cover off and take a good look at the whole clutch. Almost sounds as if the clutch hub nut came off and somehow the basket worked it's way loose or something.
morganid
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by morganid »

Sigh. Just took the clutch cover off. Everything looks good. No damage or shrapnel. But the clutch plates are loose, like there is space between them as if you are pulling on the clutch lever. I think I'm going to have to take the clutch apart. I don't have any clutch specific tools or KDX service manuals. Any tips or helps?
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Joshmcmillan
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by Joshmcmillan »

I can't see why they'd be loose unless massively worn (even then), or the 5 smaller bolts around the center of the clutch are loose? If you do have to take it apart, it's straight forward. Make sure you keep the washer on the right side and a rattle gun makes it a hell of a lot easier to get the centre bolt off.
07' CR450X (Main Bike)
07' KX125 (Completed basket case rebuild, for sale)
88' KDX200 (Not sure yet, runs but with rattly top end)
91' CBR250RR
Old Bikes: 97' KDX200, 00' RM125, 85' XR350, 94' KDX200, 02' CR80, 82' XT250, 98' CT200
Timtee
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by Timtee »

If I am only taking the small clutch cover off, then I will put the bike in 4th or 5th gear, lock the rear tire and then break the nut loose.

If I have the bigger cover off, then I jam a piece of aluminum between the clutch gear and the gear on the crank. That locks the clutch in place so you can remove the nut.
morganid
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by morganid »

Joshmcmillan wrote:I can't see why they'd be loose unless massively worn (even then), or the 5 smaller bolts around the center of the clutch are loose? If you do have to take it apart, it's straight forward. Make sure you keep the washer on the right side and a rattle gun makes it a hell of a lot easier to get the centre bolt off.
When you pull the clutch lever in, you push the little rod through the basket spreading the clutch plates apart. Right? Well there must be something behind the basket caught that is not allowing the plates to come together. Up to the point it stopped working, the clutch plates were working like a champ. Hopefully this weekend I'll get some time to take the clutch apart and really see what's up. It needs an oil change anyway.

I'll try to take some pictures as the mystery unfolds...
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Joshmcmillan
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by Joshmcmillan »

Oh yes that's a good point, will be interesting to see. Wonder if your KIPS was working properly? That little pin on the advancer shaft had a tendency to snap. Mine jammed under my shift drum and locked up the gearbox, maybe yours got in behind the clutch?
07' CR450X (Main Bike)
07' KX125 (Completed basket case rebuild, for sale)
88' KDX200 (Not sure yet, runs but with rattly top end)
91' CBR250RR
Old Bikes: 97' KDX200, 00' RM125, 85' XR350, 94' KDX200, 02' CR80, 82' XT250, 98' CT200
morganid
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by morganid »

Possibly. I'll look into it. Thanks for the tip. I sure hope it's something obvious and simple.
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bufftester
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by bufftester »

Do a quick check of the torque on your clutch spring bolts, possible that they were never tightened down which might have the same effect. An impact wrench makes getting the hub nut off a breeze (I have a $30 one I bought at Harbor Freight that has been working gangbusters for 5 years now). Good idea to check the KIPS actuator Josh, that little bit has caused a lot of headaches for folks over the years. Post some pics pre-disassembly if you can.
morganid
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by morganid »

Ok. I'm going to start tearing into the bike in a couple of hours. Does anyone know what I need to torque the bolts to when I reassemble it?
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Joshmcmillan
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by Joshmcmillan »

I've only ever done 'rattle gun tight'... Someone else will likely pitch in with the answer, but if not I'll be home in about a day and I can copy some pages out of the workshop manual if you like
07' CR450X (Main Bike)
07' KX125 (Completed basket case rebuild, for sale)
88' KDX200 (Not sure yet, runs but with rattly top end)
91' CBR250RR
Old Bikes: 97' KDX200, 00' RM125, 85' XR350, 94' KDX200, 02' CR80, 82' XT250, 98' CT200
morganid
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Re: Clutch won't engage! HELP!

Post by morganid »

(I'm going to refer to the OEM Clutch Parts Schematic found on rockymountainatvmc.com for 2003 KDX 220)

Ok. So I took it apart, and I took the entire basket out. It all looked perfect. The guy that was helping me had the theory that the springs may be wearing out and are putting uneven pressure on the basket. Therefore when I release the clutch the springs push the basket slightly sideways jamming it. This would explain everything. The only thing I noticed out of place was a small nick on the clutch hub (Part #13087-1158). The nick was on the top and side of the smooth shoulder that surrounds the inside splines. I gently sanded it smooth with some sand paper just to be sure it wouldn't be a problem.

The other thing I noticed was some wear from the tabs on the clutch plates hitting the housing. (Part # 13095). I used a hand file and gently filed them smooth-ish taking off as little material as possible. I wiped the shavings away while I was filing, and I used clean transmission oil and washed it down. (I'm going to change the oil tomorrow)

We did notice that the OEM parts schematic has a round ring smaller than the clutch plates. The schematic says it's a spring. I only have one in my bike and the schematic shows two. One is called a spring (part # 92144B) and one is called a SEAT spring (part # 16007). Does anyone know why I only have one? Do I need to buy the second one? I can't tell which one I have so I would probably need to buy them both if they are different. The clutch has worked just fine as is (with one ring-spring) up until this problem started happening.

I did take pictures, but there really was nothing exciting to look at since nothing was out of the ordinary I'm not going to go through the trouble of posting the. If someone REALLY wants me to I can post them.

As of now, the clutch seems to be working fine. In neutral with the motor ruing, there is a slight noise difference between the clutch in and clutch out. With it out, there is ever so slight of a knocking noise. This was there before I had the problem. Thoughts?

Thanks for all of your help!
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