KDXRIDER.NET

This is cry for help to Skipro and other owners of the EFM autoclutch.

Seems the EFM autoclutch could be more efficient. More precisely, the clutch doesn't seem to disengage fast enough and too often the engine will stall when coming to a stop.

I use 900ml of 10w40 Premium ATV motor oil. Garry from EFM suggested using full syntetic ATF oil but I CAN'T find any in Canada (???). I change the oil very often. Should I try regular ATF oil before trying anything mechanical to gain clearance?. Is ATF oil "lighter" than regular oil and reduce drag? (sorry if this is a dumb question). Snould I try 10w30, 5w20...

Garry also suggested that I may obtain more clearance by "taking the clutch off, on the bottom plate on the basket, there are thin flat washers under each screw, remove one of them, this will drop down the clutch pack to give you more clearance." ... Well, seems I have no thin flat washers on my set-up! Is this possible? I do have bowed washers/spring on top of the pressure plate, but NO thin flat washwers undernith the bottom of the basket. Anyways, sounds like a communication problem with Garry.

What about removing very few ball bearings in order to reduce the "centrifugical force". Could this facilitate the clutch to disengage close to idle?

Also, contrary to skipro, I do feel a little bit the clutch dragging when pushing the bike in gear.

Your help will be very much appreciated before I get back to Garry at EFM. I fell I must gain a better understanding of the EFM principles before pursuing exchanges with Garry.

Thanks in advance.

If you are feeling clutch drag in gear with the engine off and pushing it as well as stalling when coming to a stop, then you need to make an adjustment or you have made an error during the installation.

Your thread you posted up on first impression of the auto cutch was a rave review. What happened? In re-reading it, I see you took liberties with the proceedure and did this,

"I also lost some time trying to torque down the same nut with a regular torque wrench but couldn't do it (the clutch basket kept turning). The solution: install the pressure plates first, put pressure with your hand and use the an impact gun"

This could be trouble. I did a similar thing and warped a plate that slipped down behind the hub before I got the nut tightened. But first things first; lets go through everything from start to finish.

Do you have the instructions with all the photos? I created an installation guide based on my KDX for Garry to ship to anyone ordering the EFM mod. If Garry didn't send it to you and you have a very fast network connection and an e-mail box big enough to receive a 16+meg sized file, I can e-mail it to you. Otherwise I can postal mail it to you.
In my gallery are photos of the clutch install. Take a look at them. They are in a sub album titled, "Cutch Photos". In this photo is the clutch basket Garry is talking about with the screws in the bottom plate on the basket.



Remove the screws and under them are washers. Remove those as well. But before you do, let's be sure you have everything assembled right and adjusted correctly first. Here are several things that may have gone wrong in your installation or could be adjusted. (Don't ask how I know. O.k., I'll assume you asked anyway. I screwed up installing my clutch and had a very simular problem)

Start by placing the bike on a stand and draining the oil and removing the clutch cover and the pressure plate; exposing the clutch plates. Remove all the clutch plates. Be sure none are left. Now, notice the order of the plates. They must alternate between friction material plates and solid steel plates. Yes, I inadvertantly installed two steel plates back-to-back and had a simular problem you speak of. Also, I had the very last plate jamb up under the center hub because I installed the plates before tightening the big nut down and it slipped under the basket during the installation. The hub must be torqued down before the plates are installed. But before torquing down this nut, be sure you have the basket and hub installed right.
The first thing to go onto the shaft is a thrust washer, then the sleeve,then the basket, then another thrust washer, then the hub, then the spring washer, then the nut.









With the center nut torqued to spec, the hub will spin freely of the basket.



Inspect the plates and measure for warp as indicated in your manual. If a plate is warped it will cause clutch creep. If you don't have a manual, get one. Here is the proceedure for checking clutch plate warp anyway. Place each friction or steel plate on a flat surface and measure the gap between the clutch plate and the surface the plate is resting on in several locations around the plate. If any plate is warped over the service limit, replace it with a new one. The standard warp is .2mm or less and the service limit is .3mm. Install the plates in the correct order and sequence; alternating between the two types of plates and starting with a friction plate.





Do not install the last plate as the instruction book says in the alternate slots in the basket. Use the same slots for all the plates. This is important because the pressure plate is notched to fit into this slot where the last clutch plate used to sit.



Install the pressure plate and only snug the screws down that hold it in. Again, just like the clutch plates, be sure the pressure plate is fitting between the fingers that the plates are fitting into. Test to be sure the inner hub still rotates independant of the basket; this time moving the steel plates with the hub rotation by placing the motor in gear and rotating the rear tire.

Press in on the center of the clutch basket. It should move at least 1/32" and up to 1/16"



If it doesn't move that much, then you will need to remove those thin washers Garry spoke of. That would lower the inner hub deeper into the basket and create more travel for the pressure plate. The thin washers are under the screws in this photo:



If the pressure plate moves too much, more than 1/16" then you will need to install shim washers Garry provided on the shaft before the hub goes on, raising the hub to reduce the travel. The shim washers are installed on top of the final thrust washer shown in the photo. See how that would raise the hub and consiquently the plates? That would make the pressure plate closer to the clutch plate and less rpm's needed to make the clutch hook up.



With the pressure plate moving the correct travel now, you can adjust the rpm point the clutch operates at by installing the spring washers Garry provided. The spring washers are located under the six allen screws on the face of the pressure plate and installed in pairs across from each other if you do need to add any.



If not installed in pairs across from each other, the uneven pressure would cause the clutch to bind and result in the symptoms you have. Review the page Garry provided with the drawings of the washers. They stack with the curved surface out and seperated by a flat washer like this:

)|(

When adding additional spring washers, take the allen bolt out and place under the big silver washer another spring washer, in pairs across from each other like this:

))|(

See how a second spring washer is layed on top of the first? Remember that's under the large silver washer that the allen screw is against.
Be sure your washers are all installed right by removing each of the allen bolts holding them in, one at a time and reinstalling it before removing the next one. If the spring washers are not installed as in the diagram Garry sent, the clutch will not work right. I added 1 set (pair) of extra washers under allen bolts opposite of each other in order to raise the engine speed needed to get the bike to start rolling. Finish tightening all the allen bolts holding the pressure plate to the basket down. Put the cltuch cover back on and make sure the spacer and gaskets along with the guide pins are all in place. Fill with oil and give it a try.

Wow, One SMART MONKEY

SMART MONKEY AND GENTLEMEN.

Thanks so so much skipro Garry did send me "your" photo instructions but no diagram. I will definitively print this thread given there is lots of added value. I can't go wrong with this post!

2 things changed since my first review: 1 changed the oil type (which made the misadjustment more apparent) and 2, I read your post where you indicate that there is NO difference when you push the bike in gear. I always felt a little bit of drag and I could live with the occasional engine stall. Its evident that it is possible to acheive "no" engine stall. The problem isn't the product, its the mechanic.... .

Thanks again. I'll post an update when I get to it.

Use the printer friendly link (little green printer icon) at the top of this thread... choose only the post that you want to print. I knew that would come in handy!

Here's a little help...

http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.ph ... ubmit=Show

John,
I feel quite certain that all you need to do is add 2 spring washers to the pressure plate. If that isn't enough, then 2 more washers under two other allen bolts.

Here is a photo again of the 6 allen bolts used to add additional washers. Start with just 2 washers under bolts across from each other:



Here is a diagram explaining what the spring washers look like and how to add or subtract them to make the clutch slip correctly:



Let me know if you get your clutch working right or if you need more help, just ask! Glad to help.

One more thing:

Always use anti seize on the thread of all the parts. The bolts are steel and the parts are aluminum. Doug found out the hard way with his auto clutch that the 6 allen bolts that hold the spring washers will bond and bind up over time. He had to drill and easy out every one of his. Permatex anti seize works great for me. Also, check those long thin allens used to mount the pressure plate to the clutch basket regularly; like, say, every 4th or 5th ride. They can't be tightened down very hard and could work loose. Either when you change oil, or just tip the bike over to pull the cover and check. Spring washer adjustments in the field are easy by leaning the bike over just far enough to keep oil from coming out the clutch cover when you remove it.

Man O man, talk about quality service. You guys should be doing conferences before bank and insurance executives!

Speeking of money, I DO want to make a contribution/donation to help maintain this site and somehow support the regular contributors (we all know who they are). Where did the Paypal icon go?

johnkdx220 wrote:Man O man, talk about quality service. You guys should be doing conferences before bank and insurance executives!

Have you looked in my gallery and actually seen a photo of me? Or worse, a photo of CC? Or even worse than that, a photo of Wibby? There's a reason we enjoy sports that require full coverage helmets! It's hard to get people to listen to what you have to say when they have to keep turning away from you. Ha!!

Anyway, I sure hope you are able to get your autoclutch working the way you would like. Winter will be your way soon and then you won't be able to ride for a while!!!

UPDATE:

Recap: the autoclutch stalls... sometimes.

Well, I followed Skipro's advice and added 2 extra pressure springs across one from each other to create more slippage. Engine kepts stalling, sometimes. Following week at the track: 3 extra washers in a triangle pattern. Same "unsuccess". Grrrr. What the F?

Few Days later: Big surgery. Aaaa HA! Look at this picture first. the explanation follows. Mr. Judge, I'm pleading NOT GUILTY)


Upon removing the inner basket, I noticed that some of the hiden thin washers behind the back plate moved away from there position, were loose and "sometimes" jamed behind the center of the inner hub. Now you are saying... "how can that be?". Answer: The top shim or small thin washer for one of the six stack of washers was improperly installed AT THE FACTORY. It was squeezed between the dowel pins and the back plate, creating less torq on the adjacent shim stack (am most likely improper alignement of the plates....) If you look at the picture, you can see that EFM, in my view did a mistake when drilling and tapping the holes for the retaining bolts. They should of drilled the holes half-way between the dowel pins, not immediately besides them. This would of allowed the proper positioning of shim stacks. Anyways, I fixed the problem by completely filling down the dowel pins flush with the bottom of the basket (not half-way like in the picture). That way, they can be positioned away from the center of the hub without risking of squeezing one behind the plate.

I hope that was clear.
1 Problem solved, 1 problem to go (fitting the KX shock).

cc wrote (in the post "Auto clutch by FrySpeed June 6 2008):

...but I don't get grinding those dowels down. Uh...they're STAKED, aren't they? Grinding them down seems like grinding down a RIVET to me. Grind the stake off and nothing is holding anything together any more.

You are confusing the dowel pins holding the basket to the flywheel and the circular spacers (shims). Heck, maybe you are just trying to be funny. If so, HA HA.

Otherwise, let me try a second attempt: I had to grind the dowel pins in order to properly position the spacers. Proper positioning is necessary to avoid "pinching" stacked spacers between the back side of the inner clutch basket and the slightly raised dowel pins. Most importantly, grinding down the pins was necessary in order to torque down the inner basket in perfect alignment. This was not possible given that the shims and dowel pins were fighting for the same territory.

A careful look at the picture will demonstrate that grinding down the dowel pins would have not been necessary if EFM had machined/drilled the tapping holes half-way between the said dowel pins.

I hope that was clearer. If not, I suggest that we all contribute towards the "Buy CC an Autoclutch" fund.

By the way, I would bet that EFM asked the new guy in the shop to fabricate my autoclutch. Garry was very professional and do not suspect that he would make this kind of mistake.

Oh, I still love it.

How do I see the photos for this thread.
Just got a efm auto clutch and the instructions for initial adjusting are not a lot of help.
I think I know the direction I need to go but the photos in this thread feel like they would be helpful.

Welcome to kdxrider.net. The thread is over 15 years old. The pics are long gone. Sorry.