what do rich and lean sound like?

Got questions? We got answers....
Post Reply
zepplin153
Member
Posts: 137
Joined: 11:48 am Mar 13 2012
Country:
Location: middle tennessee

what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by zepplin153 »

so I have been reading the Jets sticky for months now in addition to every post I can find about carbs and jets and I'm really starting to wrap my head around it and how it works and what's going on inside my carburetor. but what I'd like to know as I'm adjusting my needle position is what am I listening for? I understand how needle position of effects my range between quarter throttle and three quarters throttle but what sound should I be detecting for lean or rich. I've heard people describe all kinds. chug lug sputter a pop a crack bog..... I don't know exactly how to determine wich is which.
just a follow up for anyone in the future, when checking your needle settings listen for a bogg under lean conditions and a sputter for rich condition.
Last edited by zepplin153 on 09:49 pm Jun 23 2013, edited 3 times in total.
'98 KDX 200 (KLX300 Forks)
User avatar
Postigo
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 372
Joined: 10:09 pm Aug 12 2012
Country:
Location: Puerto Rico
Contact:

Re: what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by Postigo »

The Doctor says I have multiple personality desorder... But we are not agree...
User avatar
diymirage
Supporting Member II
Supporting Member II
Posts: 2909
Joined: 05:00 pm Sep 19 2011
Country:
Location: michigan

Re: what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by diymirage »

but keep in mind the numbers given in that link are all guidelines
each bike is different and needs specific jetting
there is no magic number that works for every bike in every situation
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
User avatar
bufftester
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3455
Joined: 06:03 pm Oct 31 2012
Country: USA
Location: University Place, WA

Re: what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by bufftester »

About half way down that page is the following excerpt (I believe that is what Postigo was thinking of as it answers the OP question pretty well)
A rich condition will result in excessive smoke from the silencer, the plug will often carbon foul and the engine will produce a sputtering/crackling sound. A lean condition will result in slow throttle response, you twist the throttle but the power delivery is lethargic and flat. A lean condition results in a tell tale booooooha sound as well. You can quickly verify a lean condition by pulling the choke half way out. Engaging the choke will deliver additional fuel to the system and the symptoms of a lean condition should clear up.
Rick = sputtering/popping/crackling
Lean=bog/lug
User avatar
Tyl3r
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 1335
Joined: 06:51 pm Nov 26 2012
Country: USA
Location: SW Pennsylvania

Re: what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by Tyl3r »

what if its not really sputtering/popping/crackling but you are getting a little excess smoke at the pipe and some black spooge? Maybe just the plug fouling up?
04/05 KX220 Hybrid all decked out
18 KTM 500 EXC-F Dual Sport/Sumo toy
24 KTM 300XC-W Cheater bike
User avatar
Julien D
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5858
Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
Country: USA
Contact:

Re: what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by Julien D »

I have found it nearly impossible to jet the spooge out of my KDX without causing a lean condition at WOT. Properly jet it and keep the silencer cleaned out is about the best you can do.
Image
User avatar
bufftester
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3455
Joined: 06:03 pm Oct 31 2012
Country: USA
Location: University Place, WA

Re: what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by bufftester »

Julien D wrote:I have found it nearly impossible to jet the spooge out of my KDX without causing a lean condition at WOT. Properly jet it and keep the silencer cleaned out is about the best you can do.
+1

If you have a spooge problem (i.e.: you're painting all the bushes, driveway, garage door, etc full of black freckles) then you have a jetting problem. Properly jetted you'll have a little spooge and some smoke, primarily when cold because thats what life with a 2T requires.
zepplin153
Member
Posts: 137
Joined: 11:48 am Mar 13 2012
Country:
Location: middle tennessee

Re: what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by zepplin153 »

To quote Neo........ "woah"

That was an epic help. I have even come across this in the past but never in this context. I glazed right over that part that applies to my current questions.

I do have some new questions now.... They describe some testing of pilot circuit that is not the same as the jetting sticky. what gives do you test it between 1/2 & 1-1/2 turns out of air screw or, like the sticky says, high idle and between 1-1/2 & 2-1/2 turns out of air screw.
'98 KDX 200 (KLX300 Forks)
User avatar
bufftester
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3455
Joined: 06:03 pm Oct 31 2012
Country: USA
Location: University Place, WA

Re: what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by bufftester »

From the quoted article
The normal operating range is between 1 and 1.5 turns out so if you find the ideal setting is less that 0.75 turns out consider installing the next richer pilot jet (larger number ). If you find the ideal setting is more than 2 turns out consider installing the next leaner pilot jet ( smaller number ).
From the Jetting Sticky
Turn the airscrew all the way in, then turn it out 1.5 turns to start. Start the engine, and turn the idle screw in until you get a slightly fast idle, or hold the throttle just barely cracked, to keep the engine idleing. Turn the airscrew slowly in, and then out, until you find the point where the idle is fastest. Stop there. Do not open the screw any farther, or your throttle response will be flat and mushy, and the bike may even bog. This is only the starting point, we will still have to tune the airscrew for the best response. Now is the time to determine if you have the correct pilot installed in your carb. The airscrew position determines this for you, making it very simple. If your airscrew is less than 1 turn from closed, you need a larger pilot jet. If it is more than 2.5 turns from closed, you need a smaller pilot jet.
They say the same thing. The only difference is one procedure has you start by turning the screw all the way in then backing it out, the other has you preset it in the middle of the normal range and then turn it IN and OUT to find best idle. Both methods put you in the same place. 98% of KDXs will end up around 1.5 turns out.
zepplin153
Member
Posts: 137
Joined: 11:48 am Mar 13 2012
Country:
Location: middle tennessee

Re: what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by zepplin153 »

OK. Thanks.
'98 KDX 200 (KLX300 Forks)
User avatar
rbates9
Supporting Member II
Supporting Member II
Posts: 3164
Joined: 06:07 pm Apr 27 2010
Country:
Location: UPSTATE New York

what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by rbates9 »

It may help you to see what lean and rich feels and sounds like if you put your needle in the top clip (lean) and ride it around a bit then go to the bottom clip (rich). That would show you the extremes and may help you determine what is what.
zepplin153
Member
Posts: 137
Joined: 11:48 am Mar 13 2012
Country:
Location: middle tennessee

Re: what do rich and lean sound like?

Post by zepplin153 »

I follow the jetting guide 100% to a T. I got this mother #@?$* running beautifully. 35/150 clip on 2nd from top (4th pos I think). IT'S ALIIIIIIIVE. ALIIIIIIIIIIVE!!!!! It's so smooth through the whole range. The first twist is very responsive. Rolling on the throttle all the way to top is smooth. Love it. It's a woods monster.
'98 KDX 200 (KLX300 Forks)
Post Reply