Engine Seized After Wash

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usagi
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Engine Seized After Wash

Post by usagi »

I've been trying to freshen up my '90 200; sprockets, chain, brake pads, filter, etc. Yesterday, I decided to give it a long overdue wash. There was some serious build-up that I am not proud of, so I used some purple cleaner, which got it looking as good as it has since I bought it. I let it sit for an hour or so and decided to put around the yard a bit since I had some time. Turned on the choke, started on the second kick. But, on the first kick, I noticed a bit more resistance than normal. I probably should have stopped there. After idling for a minute, I put it into gear and start to roll on when it starts stuttering and I realize that the choke was still on. I stop and start to put it into neutral when she dies. When i tried to kick it over again, my foot hits a brick wall. When I tried to coast a bit and put it in gear, it just locked up the wheel. I'm assuming a piston seizure, probably due to water getting in there during the wash. Where should I start? I am going to try to open up the jug tonight to see what it tells me. Anything else I should look for initially?
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by royadams »

It may just be full of water. I would make shure the drain in the bottom of the air box is open. It may have filled up with water and let it in the carb. I would pull the plug and see if it will kick over. Don't wait long to see if it's just water, it will rust all you bearings.
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Julien D
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by Julien D »

Agree
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usagi
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Engine Seized After Wash

Post by usagi »

So I ran home during lunch for a quick triage. Pulled the plug, still won't kick. I put it in gear and, while the wheel seems locked while rolling forward, when I roll it back I hear movement and it sounds odd. Like gurgling, I guess is the only way to describe it. Also, I turned the bike upside down with the plug out. Nothing seemed to come out of the plug hole, but some very milky looking oil slowly dripped out of the reed block gasket. So, I know that that gasket needs replacing obviously, and probably at least one entry point for water. What is going on in there, though?
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diymirage
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by diymirage »

just for the fun of it, drain the oil and report on that
(wouldnt be a bad idea to flush it out anyway)
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
usagi
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by usagi »

I will drain the oil again. I've done it a few times in the past week since I replaced the water pump seal.
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diymirage
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by diymirage »

hey, there is another piece of the puzzle, why did you replace the water pump seal ?
and how did the oil look the last time before you washed the bike ?

on a side note, i dont think you gave an awnser to Roys question about the drain hole in the airbox
i have one KDX that before i bought it saw a lot of red clay action and i ended up taking the airbox into the shower with me to get all that red clay out

if that hole was/is plugged on your bike it may have been the entrie point of water that Roy refered too
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
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Julien D
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by Julien D »

If the bottom end is full of water it can lock it up tight. You might drain the oil, drain the fuel, leave the plug out and flip the bike upside down. Rock the back wheel forward and back a bit and watch for any water to come out of the spark plug hole...
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usagi
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by usagi »

I stuck my finger in the drain hole ( :lol: ) and it seemed unobstructed. When I get home I'll check it more thoroughly along with Julien's steps. Thanks so far, guys
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Engine Seized After Wash

Post by usagi »

Got the gas and oil drained. Surprisingly, the oil was in great shape, no milk that I could see. Turned it on her head and gave the wheel a few stubborn turns in gear. As I was turning, I saw some gray sludge spitting out of the jug. I do remember that I overfilled the oil a bit when I refilled after noticing that the drain plug was a bit tight, so perhaps that explains why there was oil mixed with the water. Anyway, I got less and less resistance from the engine, so I put it in neutral and, lo and behold, I was able to turn it over with the kick lever by hand. What should my next step be? I want to make sure that I get that sludge out of the motor. Would it be best to pull the head and wipe down the inside of the cylinder?
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diymirage
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by diymirage »

Not that I would ever admit this out loud but if it were my bike id do an oilchange, spray some wd40 in the cylinder and run it
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by Thrahl »

I would at the very least pull the jug and take a look at the cylinder walls and piston. If it was a piston seize then the cylinder plating is probably damaged and you need to do a rebuild.
If the piston/cylinder is fine then it must have been the crank that was seized. If it were mine I would kick it over a bunch to get some oil/gas down into the bearings/seals and do a leakdown test. If that comes out clean and everything moves I'd run it.
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Julien D
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by Julien D »

I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like it was fluid locked, not seized. Would not hurt to pull the jug ( leave the head on) and clean it out. I wouldn't expect any damage due to this, but its a good time to inspect anyway. Clean it up, and flush the bottom end with deisel or kerosene until it comes out clean. If everything seems right, give it a final flush with premix, and bolt her back up.
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royadams
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by royadams »

Overfilling the gear oil will not make a difference with anything in the jug. The transmission and crank case is separated. I took my bike in a mud hole over the seat a few months back. I pulled the pipe, tank and seat off turned it up side down and spun the wheel until the water was all out. Flipped it over looked at the piston and cylinder thru exhaust hole to check for any damage. Then fired it back up. Still going strong. Maybe a little too strong. Hammered a tree last weekend and knocked my self out, and black and blued a good part of my body. When u wash it up good make shure exhaust is plugged and air box drain is clear . Hope all is well with it.
usagi
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Engine Seized After Wash

Post by usagi »

Bit of a rollercoaster over the last couple hours. Put everything back together and fired her up, no problem. Let it warm up and rod around for about 30 min without putting too much stress on the engine just in case. When I pulled back up to the house, it died. Though I had been messing with the air screw while it was warming up, so I figured it was just an idle issue. I gave it a few kicks and then STOP. No movement in the lever again. I put it into gear and roll back a few feet, which frees up the kick lever just enough to cover the same distance. So can I assume that there is something floating around in the case? I'm hoping that it's not a full bottom end rebuild, but I fear that I may have to take it to the shop. I don't have the confidence or tools to split the case.
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Julien D
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by Julien D »

What's your radiator fluid level after that ride? Could be a leaking water through the head gasket. Repeat some of the previous steps and see if there's more liquid in the bottom end. If not, yeah you're probably looking at splitting cases to check everything out.

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Roadhazardguy
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by Roadhazardguy »

I had a kx80 that the piston skirt broke on while I was riding, the little piece got wedged in the crank and locked it up. Once we tore it down we found that if we would have turned it backwards it would have come free allowing it to run some more. I'm not saying that this it what is wrong with yours but it sure sounds familiar.
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usagi
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Engine Seized After Wash

Post by usagi »

I figured I'd update for anyone that's curious.

I pulled the cylinder and it looks fine from what I can see. The piston is stuck at a bit past midway to TDC, so I couldn't quite get the jug all the way off. Bit there was no scoring on the piston, and bearing play seemed just fine. I also took off the right-side engine cover and clutch. I was REALLY hoping that the hang-up was in that area but, alas, it's in the case somewhere. I'm really not sure where I'm going to go from hear. With a new baby on the way and some other stuff going on, I can not afford the insane shop prices to get it checked out. I'm also not sure about splitting the cases since I don't even have a garage to work in right now, just a carport, and my tool selection might be lacking. I'd definitely have to do without a press, which would suck from what I saw in rbates' guide. I'll have to do some soul-searching and figure out if the risks to the motor/wallet outweigh the fact that I will be out of a ride for a long while otherwise.

I just moved across several states, and one of the factors was that there is much better riding here. Now My bike shits the bed, and all I have as backup is my wife's TTR125L. /sobstory
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Engine Seized After Wash

Post by rbates9 »

With a new baby on the way you may need to fix the bike for your own sanity! :lol: There is other ways to get stuff apart and back together when splitting the cases. An oven and a freezer can be your best friend for getting bearings in if you have the time.
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Re: Engine Seized After Wash

Post by Julien D »

Yes, you can definitely make do without a press. the only real necessities are a case splitter and a flywheel puller. The flywheel puller is cheap and the splitter can be made from some metal stock and a few nuts and bolts.

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