KDX's limitations?

Got questions? We got answers....
User avatar
G22inSC
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 513
Joined: 10:23 pm Jul 24 2006
Country: United States
Location: South Carolina

KDX's limitations?

Post by G22inSC »

I always wanted a new KDX two stroke growing up so I went out and bought one when they discontinued them years ago. I have never regretted the purchase and ride whenever I get the chance. I mainly hit the trails with the kids and the occasional track (just for fun with friends). Bear in mind, I have too many bones to break and bills to pay to really ride that hard...especially on the tracks. I completed the fork conversion mainly for the underhang on the stock forks and cosmetics. I'm sure once they are dialed in they will be much better but not light years ahead. I will then need to have the rear KDX suspension reworked. I'm just wandering what the KDX's limitations are to make so many people want to go the fork conversion or hybrid route.

I know the fork conversion updates the suspension somewhat. What does the hybrid do for us? Are the frames really that different? I know the KX frames have the removable subframe and different axle alignment setups, but they seem so similar. Is it just weight or something else? Just curious and wander what the fuss is all about.

What is it about the KDX that makes it so "dated"?
'05 Kaw KDX200 ('00 KX125 forks / '02 RM125 Showa "K2" shock)
'14 Yam YZ125(x) (oldest boy's)
'22 Yam YZ125X (youngest boy's)
'17 Yam YZ85 (soon to be FOR SALE)
'10 Honda Recon (wife's)
'08 Kaw KX65 (Sold)
'07 KTM 50SX Sr. (Sold)
'09 Yam PW50 (retired)
'97 Kaw KX250 (Sold)

Gallery

2005 KDX200 Bike Profile
User avatar
Julien D
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5858
Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
Country: USA
Contact:

Re: KDX's limitations?

Post by Julien D »

Well, the H series KDX is loosely based on a late 80's early 90's KX125. There were no frame or suspension upgrades done since 1995 with the KDX. So your question kind of comes down to comparing something like a 1989 KX125 with a 2000+ KX125. Obviously there were some improvements made to the chassis and suspension on the KX over the years, which the KDX never benefited from. So the idea behind the hybrid is installing a legendary motor in a modern chassis, in an effort to improve the ergonomics, chassis, suspension, handling, and reduce the overall weight. That's the basic idea. Some folks just want a newer looking bike, most are after the better handling. Make sense?
Image
User avatar
bufftester
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3455
Joined: 06:03 pm Oct 31 2012
Country: USA
Location: University Place, WA

Re: KDX's limitations?

Post by bufftester »

+1 spot on. If you're just trail riding for fun and don't push your envelope, the KDX will take you wherever you want to go. But if you want to race off-road the KDX motor will get you there, in spite of the handling/suspension/weight of the rest of the bike.
User avatar
G22inSC
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 513
Joined: 10:23 pm Jul 24 2006
Country: United States
Location: South Carolina

KDX's limitations?

Post by G22inSC »

Is there really that big of a difference? When I still had my 97 KX250 I remember thinking the two bikes looked so similar it was crazy. The frames looked almost identical except for the subframe and water pump protection. I know the swingarm is different and the KX has a little flatter seat.

How much weight difference is their between the KDX and KX frames? Is there enough of a difference in the handling/geometry that a non class A rider would notice?

It seems the KDX gets a bad rep by a lot of people that I don't think would be any faster on a current year bike.

Just my opinion.
'05 Kaw KDX200 ('00 KX125 forks / '02 RM125 Showa "K2" shock)
'14 Yam YZ125(x) (oldest boy's)
'22 Yam YZ125X (youngest boy's)
'17 Yam YZ85 (soon to be FOR SALE)
'10 Honda Recon (wife's)
'08 Kaw KX65 (Sold)
'07 KTM 50SX Sr. (Sold)
'09 Yam PW50 (retired)
'97 Kaw KX250 (Sold)

Gallery

2005 KDX200 Bike Profile
User avatar
SS109
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5770
Joined: 05:11 am Aug 23 2009
Country: USA
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Contact:

KDX's limitations?

Post by SS109 »

Don't let anyone kid ya. A stock (as in components, not valving/springs) suspensioned KDX is a very capable machine for it's intended purpose, tight woods type riding/racing. However, like has already been mentioned, the hybrid gives you updated suspension/ergonomics, and a lighter weight chassis. IMO, yes, if your a B or fast fast C rider you would feel the difference. I can't remember off hand what the weight difference is but a 5+ pound difference can be huge. It also is important how that weight is carried. A modern KX chassis tends to carry more weight lower than the KDX so, all things being equal, the KX would "feel" lighter.

Having said that, I stayed with the stock frame with my '90 because I know that it will do what I need it to do. Again, it is a very capable machine. I ride hard and fast when i ride. The only serious chassis mod I did was the KX fork conversion. For me it was a light years ahead upgrade because of my riding style. On the other hand, for my purpose built racer, I am going to a modern chassis ('06 KX250f) for my KDX250. I know it will be way lighter (40 to 50 pounds! :shock: ) and has much better suspension components and that will make a huge difference when racing harescrambles and qualifiers.
Youtube Channel: WildAzzRacing
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
User avatar
rbates9
Supporting Member II
Supporting Member II
Posts: 3164
Joined: 06:07 pm Apr 27 2010
Country:
Location: UPSTATE New York

KDX's limitations?

Post by rbates9 »

There was a thread awhile ago about the weight of the KDX vs a hybrid and the difference was very minimal. The actual weight difference was less then five pounds with the KDX being heavier. Also keep in mind that I have a mounted knobby that is five pounds lighter then my mounted trials tire so the physical weight of the bike will be basically the same. But the weight on a KDX is carried much higher then on a 125 frame so the feeling will be that the hybrid will be much lighter. And like was said before, the KDX was pretty much outdated when the H came out in 95 and then went unchanged to the end. When you bought a brand new 2006 KDX it was made with 15+ year old technology as far as the frame and suspension was concerned. Still a great bike for general all around woods riding like it was made for but if your trying to compete with the new bikes you need everything you can get.

It's all about what YOU want out of the bike as to whether a hybrid is worth the effort.
jeeptech1
Member
Posts: 131
Joined: 12:49 am Nov 13 2012
Country:
Location: Eugene OR

KDX's limitations?

Post by jeeptech1 »

I was out riding with my AA pro woods buddy two weekends ago and found the kdx limitations. My bike is a 220, has a kx125 front end, fmf exhaust, boysen reeds. I am nowhere near as good as he is skill wise(get that outta the way). Anyway, trying to keep up with him and his '13 ktm 300 was impossible. The suspension, fork angle, valving, and wheel base were limiting how fast I could go even though the engine still had power to spare. My bike was taking a beating and so was I(ended up with bent handlebars and sitting about 5' from the bike). His bike just soaked up deep woops, rock fields and the like that just thrashed mine. Besides trying to go that fast, the kdx has no limits, and I love mine. I can trials ride it, putt with the wife, climb anything, and go fast(well not A rider fast but then I don't really enjoy going that fast). So it really is the chassis and suspension that holds the kdx from being a great race bike.
User avatar
diymirage
Supporting Member II
Supporting Member II
Posts: 2909
Joined: 05:00 pm Sep 19 2011
Country:
Location: michigan

KDX's limitations?

Post by diymirage »

jeeptech1 wrote:I was out riding with my AA pro woods buddy two weekends ago and found the kdx limitations. My bike is a 220, has a kx125 front end, fmf exhaust, boysen reeds. I am nowhere near as good as he is skill wise(get that outta the way).

seems to me if you really want to find the KDXs limitation you should go out and put your buddy on the KDX and have you ride his orange peel
then see if the KTM still walks the KDX as bad as it did with your buddy on it


i have a 96 KDX 200 with KX 125 forks myself and i know the biggest limitation by far is me, as a rider i just am not good enough to milk the bike to its full potential
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
User avatar
SS109
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5770
Joined: 05:11 am Aug 23 2009
Country: USA
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Contact:

KDX's limitations?

Post by SS109 »

diymirage wrote:
jeeptech1 wrote:I was out riding with my AA pro woods buddy two weekends ago and found the kdx limitations. My bike is a 220, has a kx125 front end, fmf exhaust, boysen reeds. I am nowhere near as good as he is skill wise(get that outta the way).

seems to me if you really want to find the KDXs limitation you should go out and put your buddy on the KDX and have you ride his orange peel
then see if the KTM still walks the KDX as bad as it did with your buddy on it
Well said! :supz:

diymirage wrote:i have a 96 KDX 200 with KX 125 forks myself and i know the biggest limitation by far is me, as a rider i just am not good enough to milk the bike to its full potential
Same here. I may be fairly fast but I can in no way push my KDX to it's limit.
Youtube Channel: WildAzzRacing
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
User avatar
Julien D
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5858
Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
Country: USA
Contact:

Re: KDX's limitations?

Post by Julien D »

Agree. I don't think I will ever hybrid my E bike, because it is so incredibly comfortable and does everything I need it to do on a trail ride. I would, however, like to build a hybrid out of an H series for those days when I really want to haul ass.
Image
jeeptech1
Member
Posts: 131
Joined: 12:49 am Nov 13 2012
Country:
Location: Eugene OR

KDX's limitations?

Post by jeeptech1 »

seems to me if you really want to find the KDXs limitation you should go out and put your buddy on the KDX and have you ride his orange peel
then see if the KTM still walks the KDX as bad as it did with your buddy on it
Lol! Ya I don't think him swinging a leg over my bike was going to happen, I have ridden his bike before. I have to admit its really sweet and if I had the $$ I'd have one. But I don't so the kdx is the next best thing. I think with the suspension revalved for that style of riding it would be better, but the short wheelbase is really noticeable In deep whoop sections. But I love the short wheelbase for the tight trails/boulder fields.
User avatar
rbates9
Supporting Member II
Supporting Member II
Posts: 3164
Joined: 06:07 pm Apr 27 2010
Country:
Location: UPSTATE New York

KDX's limitations?

Post by rbates9 »

The rider may be the biggest limitation but it never hurts to have better tools to get the same job done. You can wash your cloths in the creek on a rock but I bet most of us still prefer the washing machine. :wink:
KarlP
Supporting Member III
Supporting Member III
Posts: 1484
Joined: 02:26 pm Jun 29 2005
Country:
Location: Alabama

Re: KDX's limitations?

Post by KarlP »

seems to me if you really want to find the KDXs limitation you should go out and put your buddy on the KDX and have you ride his orange peel
then see if the KTM still walks the KDX as bad as it did with your buddy on it
My buddy has an "A" on his AMA card and is on a GG 200. He is WAY faster than me. We swapped, he took my hybrid, he was still WAY faster than me.

The KDX has limitations. Unless you are trying to race against bikes with lower limitations it does not matter. I'm the fastest man on earth when I'm running the trails by myself, no kidding, you should see me just flying through the woods, woooohoooo!
'08 KTM200xc
'99 CR/KDX Hybrid with that RB stuff done to it
KX100 for the boy
User avatar
SS109
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5770
Joined: 05:11 am Aug 23 2009
Country: USA
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Contact:

KDX's limitations?

Post by SS109 »

No body is saying the KDX doesn't have limitations. The point is, as usual, it is more the rider than the bike. If I can run against KTM 200's and 300's, with good riders aboard, and even make passes on them sometimes, it shows that the KDX is plenty capable and not what is holding me back.

Since I said before this vid should be shown whenever we talk about the KDX's limitations/capabilities, here it is!

[youtube][/youtube]
Youtube Channel: WildAzzRacing
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
froggy
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 05:13 pm Mar 20 2010
Country:
Location: Warner Robins, GA

KDX's limitations?

Post by froggy »

The 1995-2006 200 is a great bike. You dont need a hybred. I was AA team green rider in th mid 90's on that bike. Lots of people told me I needed more bike, its a play bike, etc... I won some overalls on that bike, but it did have some things that could of been better. The forks were a weak spot because Kawasaki wanted to keep the price down. Today I think this is still great bike, thats why we have this site, because its still a popular bike. I say keep your stock bike, do a fork swap, send the rear shock to factory connection, race tech, etc..., and you will have suspension that is taylored to you and work as good as any 2013 model. Suspension has not changed that much in the last 15 years. The suspension changed a lot from the early 70's to the early 80's, but since then not quite as drastic. A hybred to me takes some of the things away from a stock 200 that makes it good: a low seat height, shorter wheel base, simplicity. A kdx was made to ride in the woods and it is still hard to beat in the eastern tight woods. It still does give up a little in the more open faster, whooped out terrian, but it did that when it was new. I have been racing a 1985 200 in some vintage races for the past year and have been having a ball. I can ride that bike almost as fast as my modern bike, and that is mid 80's technology. If it had better brakes(drum) I think I could ride it just as fast as my modern bike. It all boils down to what you feel comfortable on. If you are Russell Bobbit you are not going to ride this bike as fast as your new KTM. For me a 44 year retired AA rider I can ride it as fast as a new bike. It all boils down to what you are comfortable on, thats why I rode one back in the day. I did eventually move to a KTM 200. The KTM was more updated and suited my riding at the time( I was at the prime of my AA riding ). I think most people do a hybred because they love the 200, and what to make it a little more modern. I dont think you will be any faster on it. Some people may a be a little fater on a hybred, because it all boils down to what you are comfortable on. I was going to buy me a new KTM 250F, but after riding my 85 200 I have decided to find me a 95-2006 200, do a fork swap, revalved taylored suspension, new footpegs, pipe, silencer, a little carb & head work (RB designs) and will have a bike that puts a smile on my face. I currently ride a new Yamaha WR250F. This is also a bike that most people think is outdated and a girls bike. I had a 2012 KTM 250 XCW, that I sold because I liked the Wr better. The KTM was a 2 stroke, and maybe thats why I didnt like it, thats why I was thinking about a KTM 250F. In the end I am going to keep my little WR, and find and build me 200, that way when I show up to race( 40A) people will think I have 2 bikes you cant go fast on. Hybred or stock, its what makes you happy.
robertotjr
Member
Posts: 43
Joined: 08:32 pm Dec 02 2012
Country:
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil / Dublin, Ireland

KDX's limitations?

Post by robertotjr »

I ride every weekend with my buddies and they have a KTM 450 XC-W, WR-250F and CRF 450R.

I would have to say that my KDX limits me the most on long hills going up or down.

The stock front forks just aren`t as precise as the USD forks in those bikes and in the downhills and I get a little afraid of pushing the bike too far. I get the feeling that the front end is always floating a little, not giving me the complete feedback of what`s going on with the wheel.

Going uphill I really miss more power in my 3rd gear, something that the 450`s have plenty, and 250 and 300 2 strokes also have.
2nd gear is just too slow. I always find myself giving full throttle on 2nd gear going up.

The KDX really shines in tight woods and very rocky trails. The harder and slower the trail, the faster I ride. I really have a love/hate relationship with my bike. Whenever I ride tight trails I really love it, but when I go to more open trails I really think the KDX lacks some power.

I think the basics upgrades, USD forks, reeds and exhaust are necessary and really make the KDX the better bike all around. If kawasaki came out with something like the KDX200AF from service honda I would definitely buy it the next day.
1995 KDX 200
KAWASAKICHRIS
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 10:54 am Apr 03 2013
Country:

KDX's limitations?

Post by KAWASAKICHRIS »

I have a 00 Kdx220, I've been able to keep up with any bike that I've rode with, even a A rider on a 250. So saying the KDX has limitations is something I don't believe. I've never felt the need to do any modifications like kx suspensions or a hybrid setup. He only upgrade i have is BR8ES plug, full FMF exhaust and FMF torque reeds. I've had a guy that rode a KX500 say he was impressed with the capabilities of the KDX.
factoryX
Member
Posts: 352
Joined: 01:33 pm Jan 22 2011
Country:

Re: KDX's limitations?

Post by factoryX »

What limits the bike is the rider. Could the bike be made better which in turn aids the rider in gaining skill? God yes. By simply cleaning up the crap porting, reeds, new air filter(Stock one blows), pipe, silencer, possibly boosting compression, you're knocking down 32-36hp at the rear wheel(Matching the KTM 200 motor) versus the 26-30hp stock. Suspension, by simply upgrading the forks to practically anything other than stock it will make the bike handle/stop better. Those 43mm kyb forks are straight out of the early eighties. I think before anyone simply does a hybrid they should learn how to use a stock kdx to its limits, once there start making changes that will aid you in being a better rider. A hybrid in the right hands is a down right weapon, the problem is that most KDX riders have yet to master the stock bike fully. :busted:
Image
KAWASAKICHRIS
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 10:54 am Apr 03 2013
Country:

KDX's limitations?

Post by KAWASAKICHRIS »

I agree with you factoryx. I'm no where near the potential of the performance of the 220 and do see the benefits of the upgrades many riders see. I will continue to ride my KDX the way it is until i can afford a new ktm 300 XC-W which might be never. So if i master the KDX i will switch to my XR 400 with the weisco 435 kit and hot cams stage one and go from there. The KDX can do lots of amazing things in my opinion. It did every trail and kept up with every bike/quad in its way. As jeff fredette proved it can be a great bike. But it is not a profesional race bike to todays standard. Kawasaki should definitely bring the kdx up to ktm's recent status. But 2-strokes aren't americas future sad to say.
factoryX
Member
Posts: 352
Joined: 01:33 pm Jan 22 2011
Country:

Re: KDX's limitations?

Post by factoryX »

The xr400 may have more power(Not that much more), but it will need that extra power to mover the extra weight(300lbs!).
Image
Post Reply