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okay, so I rebuilt my 97 220 in December the only problem is, is that I didn't completely remove every part of the KIPS for cleaning, but I did clean the top cover and the parts inside there above the exhaust port, and the valve did move smoothly when I pulled the head. but now is the first chance I have had to open it up after break in and if falls really flat at the 6000 rpm mark, even worse than the 220 is know for. so on first though I believe that the engine had just been built up after idling and putting around but the flat feeling after 6000 rpm wouldn't go away, so out of curiosity I removed the round cover the you take off with a quarter and revved the bike and low and behold the shaft wasn't spinning! now before I did the rebuild i removed the cover and the shaft would spin and kinda shake a little, but now it doesn't shake and moves just the slightest bit.

so there is my story, now how would I go about fixing this??

your knowledge is greatly appreciated!

try removing the cover over the actuator arm, the one with the left hand nut that you supported the shaft of when you removed it for the rebuild and see if that moves by hand. That could tell if the problem is in the pin that engages the governor or somewhere else.

I have removed the cover with the gear and bar, and the circular gear moves free and everything inside the exhaust port moves the way it should. and none of the gears were stripped. and the bar that goes into the case didnt move by hand, it didnt before i rebuilt the bike also

I think hes talking about the clutch cover.

I only want to remove that cover if I have to, but could I try starting the bike with out the actuator arm connected to see if it spins?

I fixed it, it just needed some wd-40!

what did you spray with wd40?

I sprayed the gear under the round cover and the gear that the paw gear connects to, also the inner workings of the power valve inside the exhaust port

99% chance you still have a problem.

Nothing in the KIPS that is sprayed with WD-40 to 'fix' is going to stay that way.

It likely still needs to be repaired.

There is a bind somewhere.

Read RBates' post. He told you THE correct way to take that RH assy apart (and by inference, how to put it back together).

I missed your response to what he said. Yes, there was a response, but not to what he said. You did or did not do what he said when you took it apart?

Lots of riders on this board answer lots of questions. IF the answers are not read or are ignored, the situation is probably hopeless.

I only want to remove that cover if I have to, but could I try starting the bike with out the actuator arm connected to see if it spins?

You can. The actuator arm will rotate maybe a 1/4 turn as you rev it up.

I think your best bet is to start at the round slotted cover on the LH side. Motor off, you should be able use a 10 mm nut driver and work everything all the way down into the RH case, silky smooth.

i can't see WD-40 fixing anything for long, but who knows.....

I did start the bike with the claw gear off to see if the rod would spin 1/4 and it did, i also slightly held it with my finders to see if it could spin with any force and it still spun.

***but what I have noticed it that if the bike sits for more than 30 minutes (enough for some cool down) the kips system develops a slight sicking point right at the beginning of the 1/4 turn, then after i break it free(its not very difficult to do so I can do it with my fingers) it is free until it sits again. What I concluded is that the clutch inside the case is not creating enough force to get past the sticking point and that is causing it to stay shut. although keep in mind I rebuilt the bike and broke it in (the kips what working then) ,then we got enough snow to not to ride and the bike sat for 3 weeks, after those three weeks is when I could open it up and that is when I noticed the problem, I only rode the bike for 5 minutes after I noticed it so I don't think I could have done too much damage?***

what I really need to figure out is how to get rid of this sicking point in the valve

As I understand your last post.....

There is no way to tell if the 'sticking point' is caused by something in the cylinder or something in the case.

There is no 'clutch' to the mechanism. The KIPS is driven by centrifugal force: Four steel balls are forced outward from their 'static' position as RPM increases. Their outward movement compresses a spring which in turn moves the slotted piece the governor rod (you called it a 'bar') sits in.

One more time: Did you disassemble the mechanism as noted by RBates? DID you support the governor shaft (the 'bar') when you removed AND re-placed the LHT nut that holds that 'claw' gear on?

IF you did NOT follow those instructions EXACTLY, you bent the pin that is attached to the end (in the case) of the governor rod. That part MUST be replaced ASAP if it is bent. If you do NOT replace it, it will likely break. When it breaks, the chance that the broken piece will destroy the engine by putting holes in the cases is very good. It MAY just break off and sit quietly somewhere inside the engine, but, don't count on it.

Again...if you did NOT support the shaft (meaning to HOLD it with a wrench in such a way that NO force was applied TO that pin when the 'claw' gear was removed/attached)It behooves you to take the right cover off to access the KIPS activating device to determine if that pin is bent.

Again...ASAP.

IF you know all of the above to be good by virtue of having taken it apart and reassembled it as noted, the rest of this applies.

You did not mention the force that is required to move the KIPS assembly when the 'claw' is removed. It might be hard to do with your fingers, but a 10mm socket applied to the nut under that slotted cover on the LH side will require practically no effort to move all the parts.

I would suggest you take the pipe off..activate the KIPS by hand using that nut on the LH side while looking into the exhaust port. Verify the timing of the two subport drums and the complete movement of the main valve (the flapper in the middle).

In your first post you said you did NOT remove all the KIPS parts for cleaning. You probably should have. Do you know the state of the subport drum gear teeth? Did you take those subport drums out?

sorry what I meant by the clutch was the spring and ball

I did NOT disassemble the lower case where the centrifugal force mechanism is located. I did remove the left hand thread bolt with the correct procedure and res installed it with the correct procedure

however my bike was on the original piston so I know no one could have previously messed up the timing
I check the sub port drums and they were correctly timed, also the main valve moved correctly so I know there is no issues with the timing
the sub port teeth are in correct condition with no wear. I did not take out the sub port drum gears but I removed the bushings above them and cleaned them and re oiled, re installed

You did not mention the force that is required to move the KIPS assembly when the 'claw' is removed. It might be hard to do with your fingers, but a 10mm socket applied to the nut under that slotted cover on the LH side will require practically no effort to move all the parts.

sorry again I didn't clarify that was with the claw gear removed so that the mechanism could move freely, that said even with a 10mm there was defiantly a sticking point at the start (not as hard to get past as with my fingers), then once moved past this point it moved freely opened and closed

The sticking point was strong enough that I could see the centrifugal force mechanism not having a strong enough pull or turn to move past this sticking point

Check on this:

Inside the LH slotted cover there is a little spring and ball that acts as a detent on initial opening of the mechanism. A lot of people remove it. There is a small hollow bolt coming up at 6:00 below the gear inside that LH slotted cover. In the bolt is a spring, between the spring and the gear is a little steel ball. If that spring and ball got goobered up it may be causing your stickiness.

the ball and spring was in there, but the ball sat flush to the end of the thread of the bolt. should the ball be up further?

should I try replacing the ball and spring?
or should I try not using it at all?

did you change the o-ring on one of the rod ? if you installed the wrong o-ring it can make a "sticking point"... (may be why the wd-40 helped..)

I did not replace the o-ring on the shaft, although if it was bad I would think that the sticking would be through out the entire range of the valve

TheJackRabbit wrote:sorry what I meant by the clutch was the spring and ball

That's fine..as long as everyone involved knows/understands the references used. When 10 different words/phrases are used by 10 different people for the same part it's easy to get off into the weeds when it comes to troubleshooting a problem.

TheJackRabbit wrote:
I did NOT disassemble the lower case where the centrifugal force mechanism is located. I did remove the left hand thread bolt with the correct procedure and res installed it with the correct procedure

Great! Being done correctly prevents damage to that assembly. Being done INcorrectly guarantees damage is done.

TheJackRabbit wrote: however my bike was on the original piston so I know no one could have previously messed up the timing
I check the sub port drums and they were correctly timed, also the main valve moved correctly so I know there is no issues with the timing the sub port teeth are in correct condition with no wear. I did not take out the sub port drum gears but I removed the bushings above them and cleaned them and re oiled, re installed

The subport drum teeth are part of the subport drum..all one piece..so you can not determine the condition of the teeth if you do not remove the drum. When you refer to 'sub port drum gears' you may be referring to the notched rod that actually moves 'em?

Unlikely they are causing a problem..but they CAN, so I asked what you knew about 'em.

You did not mention the force that is required to move the KIPS assembly when the 'claw' is removed. It might be hard to do with your fingers, but a 10mm socket applied to the nut under that slotted cover on the LH side will require practically no effort to move all the parts.

TheJackRabbit wrote: sorry again I didn't clarify that was with the claw gear removed so that the mechanism could move freely, that said even with a 10mm there was defiantly a sticking point at the start (not as hard to get past as with my fingers), then once moved past this point it moved freely opened and closed

The sticking point was strong enough that I could see the centrifugal force mechanism not having a strong enough pull or turn to move past this sticking point

You can remove the detent Karl spoke of..carefully...don't lose the check ball or spring... to see if your 'sticking point' goes away. If it does, then you know this 'sticking point' you are chasing is something part of the design of the KIPS.

Yes. The ball is right at the end of the bolt. The spring is pretty much always crap..no spring to it..almost completely collapsed. Go to the hardware store..get a spring that fits (may have to cut a too-long one) and replace the OEM pooper.

My choice is to keep it in. Some do remove it, as mentioned. With the detent installed, there is a lot less 'rattling' around when the KIPS is at rest. 'Less rattle' equals less wear.


I'm not picking at you for you to say 'sorry'. If I'm going to spend the time required to type even one sentence in response to your questions, it seems sensible to me that I know what you are talking about and that you understand what I'm saying. About the third time a pertinent question (may not seem pertinent to you) is asked and not responded to is about the time I stop fussing with the 'problem'.

Timely answered questions also prevent exactly the kind of response in this post..a part and parsing of something said to correct errant statements from the past multiple pages of 'stuff'.

The 'o-ring' on the RH rod is called 'packing'. It used to be a fibrous/felt sort of thing. Order the part today and it will be similar to an o-ring, 'cept it's flat. Where it usually becomes a sticking problem is after a replate: That bore doesn't get sealed off, plating material gets into the hole and restricts proper movement. Certainly, as already noted, WD could well have an effect there.

Did you do anything 'different' on your rebuild? Like...changing the base gasket configuration thinking you were 'improving' port timing?

thanks for all the help thus far

the sub port drum gears and the rod that actuates the sub ports is in good shape, no wear

also no I did not change the base gasket or any thing that a "grease monkey" would think improves power

as before I do not see a problem with anything inside the bottom case, because the all the timing marks are correct and the shafts sit and stop moving after opening where they should. I can guarantee that I don't have the problem that jeeptech1 is having in his "sluggish 220" post

if I make my own spring for the ball should I cut it to the same length as the OEM one?