220 Power valve not opening!

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220 Power valve not opening!

Postby rbates9 » 03:46 pm Jan 18 2013

That spring and ball also uses two copper washers from the factory to space the bolt out, changing the pre-load on the detent. If one or both of the copper washers are missing the detent will be much tighter and may cause the sticking problem. Maybe to the point that the KIPS will not work.

With two washers the KIPS will work at around 6000 RPM's (or so) if you remove a washer it will take more RPM's to get the KIPS to function. If the ball and spring are removed altogether then the KIPS will engage at lower RPM's. It can be used as a personal preference type tuning aid. I have tried it with the ball and spring removed and the "power band" comes in a bit to hard and fast for me on anything that is loose or slippery.
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Re: 220 Power valve not opening!

Postby TheJackRabbit » 04:38 pm Jan 18 2013

mine had both spacers still installed, so I am going to try it without the spring and ball to see if it will turn smoothly every time, then I might re install the S/B later if I see that they no longer effect the valve
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Re: 220 Power valve not opening!

Postby canyncarvr » 05:38 pm Jan 18 2013

I consistantly miss 'new' quotes from where I get put when 'responding' to a notification email. Please disregard what I labored over that's already been said and done.



TheJackRabbit wrote:thanks for all the help thus far

the sub port drum gears and the rod that actuates the sub ports is in good shape, no wear

also no I did not change the base gasket or any thing that a "grease monkey" would think improves power

as before I do not see a problem with anything inside the bottom case, because the all the timing marks are correct and the shafts sit and stop moving after opening where they should. I can guarantee that I don't have the problem that jeeptech1 is having in his "sluggish 220" post




OK OK!! Calm down.........

Hhhmmmm :hmm: ...disrespect toward the grease monkey. I resemble that remark!!

:wink:


I think some basics still need to be covered.

The detent spring/check ball was questioned. Fine. Take it out. See if that makes any difference. Doubt that it will, but that is something you expressly noted:

..the kips system develops a slight sicking point right at the beginning of the 1/4 turn, then after i break it free(its not very difficult to do so I can do it with my fingers) it is free until it sits again.


IF the detent/check ball has anything to do with it, if you REMOVE it, the symptoms will change.

There are TWO washers on that bolt. Are they both there?

109

You mentioned the KIPS used to 'shake' and now it doesn't . It's normal for it to 'shake'.

IF it has been put back together with ONE washer, there may be interference between the hollow bolt and the gear on the LH side..or maybe too much pressure against the check ball. You did question the appearance of that 'fit'. Maybe it's wrong.

TheJackRabbit wrote:if I make my own spring for the ball should I cut it to the same length as the OEM one


Length is not THE issue. Get a spring that will: compress the required amount (defined by how much the ball moves...the depth of the notch in the gear) without coil bind , will FIT in the hole, AND provide a reasonable (just right...a Goldilocks spring) amount of force such that the KIPS stays put when it's not activated, but not excessive such that the actuator can't move it.

I haven't seen this in 11-dozen KDXs, but I think the fact that the KIPS shaft can usually be seen to 'rattle' (LH cover off, engine running) is due to the OEM spring being essentially collapsed such that there is NOT sufficient force to keep the KIPS shaft 'quiet'. It's not a matter of 'Use this part number..' or a specific length, diameter, or force of spring. Simply fit one that does the job.

For right now...take it out..see if the symptoms change. If they don't..that's not the problem.

Might as well 'fix' it while you're messing with it though if you find something untoward: One washer, a bolt that's NOT hollow (and therefore it's GOT NO SPRING in it)..that sort of thing.


The KIPS being assembled properly (still a big IF at this point), I'm still leaning toward an activation problem..something wrong in the governor shaft/centrifugal actuator area.

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Re: 220 Power valve not opening!

Postby TheJackRabbit » 06:43 pm Jan 18 2013

mine had two copper spacers on it
I removed the spring and ball
I'll have to start my bike tomorrow to see if it worked, or the neighbors will get mad
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Re: 220 Power valve not opening!

Postby TheJackRabbit » 05:09 pm Jan 19 2013

I have fixed the problem

there was some greasy dirt and grim in the teeth of the RH rod inside the head that was causing it to bind up after sitting

I cleaned the dirt out and re installed the spring and ball and every thing works as it should now

Thanks for all the help and advice
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