Plug Chop Pics. Need Some Opinions.

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 06:06 pm Sep 04 2005

I plug chopped three plugs. The pics are in my gallery. I was wanting some feedback on them. This is the first time I've ever "chopped" a plug like this. So some opinions would be greatly appritiated.

Jon.

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 10:16 pm Sep 04 2005

Hi Jon, I had a look at the 'pic' in your gallery, is there more than one ?? It's real hard to tell anything due to the picture quality. I even tried clearing it up and enlarging it but still had a hard time seeing it well enough to be able to comment. If you could get some clearer pics taken closer showing the insulator it would be easier to comment. The one on the right looks a tad too rich.

Sorry I couldn't be much help... Trev

John Cena · Post by **John Cena** » 10:23 pm Sep 04 2005

Here's the pic so you guys don't have to search

fulltiltboogie · Post by **fulltiltboogie** » 12:09 am Sep 05 2005

Looks too lean to me.

Green Hornet · Post by **Green Hornet** » 07:48 am Sep 05 2005

According to what I've read about the 1-2cm band around the base, I like the plug to the far left. But I like mine a little darker. Just my 2 cents

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 10:56 am Sep 05 2005

Green Hornet wrote:According to what I've read about the 1-2cm band around the base, I like the plug to the far left. But I like mine a little darker. Just my 2 cents

That would be a 1-2 MM band not CM.

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 12:11 pm Sep 05 2005

They looked good enough to me to try it out and it ran perfectly all day long yeaterday. Bike was alot more fun to ride because of more power in the midrange area and top end area also. The bike will stand you straight up now in second which it did'nt do before. It was also a handfull going across ruted areas on hills and sharp turns because it had the exgtra power. It made it a fun ride. The idle was abit excessive and I could'nt get the idle down to far no matter what I tried. My next change will be in the pilot jet area. I need to get some extras to do this first, mbut it seems to run very well. I did'nt get the excessive spooge either. It's only around the silencer opening now instead of running down the silencer like before.

One thing I failed to mention was that those first to plugs ( the lighter colored plugs) was that I only could run full throttle in second. I did'nt have enough room to get the bike into any higher gears. I need to do that too before getting into the pilot jetting probably?

Jon.

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 12:28 pm Sep 05 2005

A high idle can indicate a too lean pilot.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 01:11 pm Sep 05 2005

I don't see much of any mixture ring..maybe a smidgen on the middle plug?

Unlikely that: 1. In 2nd gear you will have any load on the engine, and 2. In 2nd gear with that little load that you will be WOT for long.

The plug on the right is interesting...if the result of a WOT plug chop. Maybe that's where the 1-2cm idea came from??

You don't mention if all three are from the same jet-set?

My $.02...you need some more room and a higher gear (= more time) on the plugs to see the ring. Your next pics???....take them from the side (plug pointing up, not lying down) to better see what ring there is.

Start rich and work your way down. If you do a 6th gear 30-second WOT test and your a size or two too lean, you're looking at the gray ash of death on your plugs instead of any color/band/ring.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 03:20 pm Sep 05 2005

You may as well throw those in the trash. Run it at full throttle under a load through all the gears and hold it down, then do the plug chop. Going in 2nd gear won't be good enough.

Do like canyncarvr said and start rich and work your way down.

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 07:54 pm Sep 05 2005

Thanks guys, C.C. I'll keep the pic advice in mind and yes, the dark one is a richer main jet than the two lighter colors. They are more grayish than tan in color. But as said, they realy don't tell you anything. I'll find more room and run through all the gears WOT this time. All I can say is the bike ran great with the smaller main jet. I would think it would have ceased up if it were to lean. I ran a tank and a half of gas through it yesterday. I rode over 31 miles. Alot of it was hard on thr throttle too. But still that does'nt prove anything, I'll get the plug chop done right this time and order some pilot jets also.

Thanks guys.

Jon.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 10:28 am Sep 06 2005

They always run the best........... just before they blow up!!

You can be on the edge of lean and run the bike all day long! But...the first time you get over that edge and run the bike a bit harder than you have been..and maybe it's 10º cooler than it was last time...you might stick it.

I'm saying it CAN be too lean and not seize it...yet.

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 01:39 pm Sep 06 2005

Most bikes will give notice that it's too lean with a rattle noise. Heed that noise!!!!

Well, unless your Carvr. His bike rattles so much m0rie and I could hear him 2 hills over!! You have to experiance the sound his bike makes to appreciate it. I'll keep my "quack" thank-you-very-much!!!

I've had my bike too lean on the mid by placing the needle clip too high. It will give a lean bog and even stall out the bike. A WOT lean condition will run hot and will detonate. As long as your bike doesn't dentonate by design (

) then you should have some warning.

Best thing though is to WOT chop a plug to get it right. To compensate for a short straight away run, go up hill in a lower gear to have the proper engine load. It doesn't need to be top gear, just a load on the motor. Also, you can drag the rear brake to load the motor. That's what I do: Accellerate quickly to 3rd, hold WOT with the rear brake dragging while on a slight uphill run for 30 seconds. That supplies enough load to the motor to keep it out of the over-rev area and give you a clean burn ring on the plug.

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 01:50 pm Sep 06 2005

skipro3 wrote:Most bikes will give notice that it's too lean with a rattle noise. Heed that noise!!!!

Well, unless your Carvr. His bike rattles so much m0rie and I could hear him 2 hills over!! You have to experiance the sound his bike makes to appreciate it. I'll keep my "quack" thank-you-very-much!!!

Carvr, says our bikes sounds like ducks quacking...his bike sounds like a angry bumble bee, its quite noticable. Thought I had a wasp buzzing around in my helmet the first time I heard it coming up on the trail. Sure doesn't stop his bike from running like a top though! Different strokes for different folks!

-Maurice

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 02:03 pm Sep 06 2005

Half throttle!!! Sure! I was just being polite to my host. My dad taught me to not show up and emberass anyone feeding me.

Like you say: it runs best just before it explodes. I didn't want to be hit with shrapnel!!

It did run faster though, after you modified the barkbusters. Now, where's a photo of that?! It's amazing how fast you can ride; when your in a hurry to get to the bactine!!!

Duct tape, the handyman's secret weapon.

I see you found the eBay auction.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 02:21 pm Sep 06 2005

Now...I deleted my smartaleck response 'cuz I didn't want to dilute jafo's thread. Not fast enough, though.

FTR, I had defended my noisy rattling scooter by claiming that ski couldn't keep up in 6th gear when I was only at 1/2 throttle!! Well, yeah...that's the only place I could keep up, but that's a different story....

...and it wasn't bactine...it was the LISterine that was the hurry up!!

Honestly, every bike has its own personality. Most of that is the state of tune its owner prefers. I had the privilege of riding both m0rie's and ski's bike. They both run like their rider's pay attention to them, tune them to both their riders AND the bike's advantage.

...and that's where jafo's headed with HIS tuning efforts!

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 02:30 pm Sep 06 2005

canyncarvr wrote:Now...I deleted my smartaleck response 'cuz I didn't want to dilute jafo's thread.

Not fast enough, though. FTR, I had defended my noisy rattling scooter by claiming that ski couldn't keep up in 6th gear when I was only at 1/2 throttle!!

...and it wasn't bactine...it was the LISterine that was the hurry up!!

Alright CC - I was just razzing you a bit! I'll knock it off so Jafo can get some useful info out of us instead of us smarta$$ing each other.

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 06:12 pm Sep 06 2005

Guys, I don't mind this kind of dilution.

Ski, I have'nt laughed this hard in a long time, this is a riot!

I'll keep this all in mind too. Good info. I should be able to get it tuned pretty well with allthis advice, so thanks.

I have a couple other observations. I pulled trhe plug out to look at the grounding strap. I understand that detonation will mangle the ground strap. It looked good.

I did'nt have any detonation noises at all, and ran the bike pretty hard. If anything it sounds alot better now than before. It's got the ring a "ding sound" now instead of the "four stroke" sound. I did'nt hear any "angry bumble bees" though.

I also noticed that the threads around the grounding strap were wet with oily residue. Does the oily residue tell you anything?

Jon.

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 12:02 am Sep 07 2005

Jetting by the seat of your pants is always a good idea. Most pros will tell you to do that and not jet for color or spooge.

Sound: Thanks for the reminder!! My bike 4 strokes when cruising at part throttle on flat terrain. That's a good thing. If the exhaust note was clean sounding under those conditions, it could be a clue that the bike is too lean. Carvr asked me about the 4 stroke when we were traveling on gravel roads. He noted quite a bit of it from his bike and I hadn't paid attention to mine. I did then and noted that unless I was on the gas and accelerating or gas off and braking, then I heard the 4 stokeing sound. The exhaust sound should seem to come just from the tip of the muffler; not from down low in the pipe. That low sound is indicitive of too rich condition. A lean bog is noticed when wicking the throttle and the bike will make a loud air-sucking noise but not produce any power. It will also seem as if the bike might stall if you wicked the throttle more open or held it open longer.

Glad the banter is entertaining. It's even better living the adventure of riding with these guys! If you can't make it out west, then take the time and effort to stage a local ride in your area. You will never regret the effort.

IdahoCharley · Post by **IdahoCharley** » 10:12 am Sep 07 2005

Jafo - oily residue on the grounding strap and/or plug washer areas would have some telling you that your oil to gas premix ratio is higher that what the engine needs; for the use your subjecting it to. (my take on that is that your jetting may be a little rich and your plug and pipe temperature is not high enough to burn the oil off the plug)

FWIW - I'm of the opinion that you select a reasonable premix ratio based upon the bike size, type of riding, and quality of the premix oil. And that you only adjust the premix ratio if there is an indication during R&R activities that you are running an excessively lean mixture. e.g. lower end wear concerns, not enough residual oil in the lower crankcase and on the rotating assembly and piston during inspection, PV lack of residual oil, etc.

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Plug Chop Pics. Need Some Opinions.

Plug Chop Pics. Need Some Opinions.