Help! kickstart does not engage properly

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street
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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by street »

hello, ive got a problem with my kickstart.

whenever i go to kick it over it doesnt engage till about half way down. by this point you are hardly kicking over anything.
ive tried putting a blob of weld on the knucle but still doesnt help.
so i took the clutch cover off.
what could of gone wrong, the spring is all intact but doesnt return it very well.
ive read that the kickstarts are very soft could it of twisted over time its a 2000 bike.

any help would be hugely appreciated as i need to ride this on sunday!

Regards
Street
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rbates9
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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by rbates9 »

There has been FAR too many post with this same problem. Do a search and see what you find. You will need to take a good look at the entire kicker assembly.

By the way, welcome to the site
street
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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by street »

i have had a good search but cant seem to find enough.
i have had the mechanism out and examined all the teeth and they do not seem damaged
the kick starter is slightly twisted but not enough to make it engage this low down.
it engages around 9 o clock. if you look at it as if its a clock... leaving you hardly anything to kick over.
i have read that oil can change how it engages is this true?
ive only just got this bike an this is the only problem with it.
the gears that go from the starter are they likely to of become worn?

sorry to be a pain but any advice would be much appreciated.

Street
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Re: Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by suzuki 166 »

check the teeth on the back of the gears if they are worn thats your problem the oil can be a problem mine slips now and again when cold but never when hot if all looks good when you have it apart then try some lighter oil
street
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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by street »

i will give it a good going over tommorow night. thanks for reply.
do you know if any other bikes kick start mechs can be used in the 220? i cant get hold of a 220 one and was wondering if i got another one and tried that from a diff size cc kawa fits.
if i put a shorter kick starter on it should help give me more travel i think. do any other models fit strait onto the splines?
Regards
Street
suzuki 166
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Re: Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by suzuki 166 »

you can check part numbers at cmsl or aj sutton web sites just click on your model get the part numbers then try diffrent years you should find something that will fit.
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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by scheckaet »

get a newer/stronger spring (not the coil one, the small one) that engages the kick.
I stretched mine and my issue is gone for now.
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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by canyncarvr »

It is possible to have the kicker lever bend. That's why I got rid of my OEM kicker...a 2000 bike..and that kicker failed YEARS ago. At that point, the kicker will appear to start engagement 'late', but it's just plain bent.

In that case the return position will be 'off', too.
...the spring is all intact but doesnt return it very well.
The kicker assy doesn't 'work' very well with the cover off. It is easy to have the return spring tang come out of the nylon (white) spacer if you operate the kicker with the cover off. As implied..that situation comes about when the cover has BEEN off for whatever reason.

If your bike had not been apart prior to the problem, I would suspect a bent lever first.

:hmm: How would a shorter kick lever get you 'more' travel?

If you get a short lever (an '89 kicker fits, iirc..and one other configuration that I do NOT recall offhand), don't bother putting it on a worn out knuckle. You end up with a kicker that doesn't work very well AND you will wear out your brandy new lever to boot!

Good Luck!

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street
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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by street »

thanks for your input.
how tight should the spring be when its in the hole of the crank case. because i can put mine back in by hand quite easily?
should i try and give it another wind and then into the crank case. but i dont know how to grip it and do that....
any ideas?

the gears that come of from the kickstart is it possible for them to of slipped? i used to have a kmx 200 an they had dots on each gear that have to all meet at the right point does the kdx 220 have that aswell?

cheers
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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by canyncarvr »

street wrote:thanks for your input.
how tight should the spring be when its in the hole of the crank case. because i can put mine back in by hand quite easily?
'quite easily' is fine.

street wrote: should i try and give it another wind and then into the crank case. but i dont know how to grip it and do that....
That's not it. 1. I doubt it's even possible to 'add' a wind to it, and, B. It's not necessary NOR the correct way to put it together.

street wrote: any ideas?

the gears that come of from the kickstart is it possible for them to of slipped? i used to have a kmx 200 an they had dots on each gear that have to all meet at the right point does the kdx 220 have that aswell?

cheers
I don't have my manual at hand...but I recall there are index marks to that assy.

You do have the idler gear in correctly? It only 'fits' (correctly) one way. You CAN force it together wrong, though. No...thanks for asking...I didn't do that. Honest. Really! ..and I mean it!


Still...if it used to work just fine..and then it didn't..and it had NOT been apart between those two situations., I doubt anything went wrong inside.

I understand it may be wrong NOW...'cuz it HAS been apart.

You do NOT have to fight the assy into proper position/alignment. You DO have to pay attention to that tang, that it does NOT slip out of the slot in the white nylon collar.

I'll take a look at mine later today..take note of an 'o-clock' movement from at-rest to first engagement/resistance of the knuckle.

I've had mine apart only a couple of times and do not recall the specifics of it to the extent I could provide a bit-by-bit assembly process. I DO know it is not a fight..and you DO have to watch that tang.

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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by scheckaet »

you only need to wind the big spring about 1/4 of a turn (clockwise), pair of pliers is enough.
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Re: Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by canyncarvr »

Certainly there is some pressure required. I didn't intend to infer all the parts just fall into place.

'Another wrap' isn't right, though.

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street
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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by street »

ive had the clutch basket of because it was binding and the kickstart shaft out and thats all.
i wont try an wrap the coil spring then thanks for replies.
i will check the spring behind it that engages it and then if the markings line up. cant get hold of a manual here in the UK.

Thanks for your help and i will update tomorrow evening.


Street
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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by scheckaet »

FYI, as far as I know, the big spring (yellow on my bike) is the one that returns the kick to start position; the other small one is the one that applies pressure to the meshing gears causing the "slippage" if too weak...
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Kicker alignment

Post by canyncarvr »

From the manual, section 5 (clutch) page 5-18

Caution:
When assembling the ratchet (B) onto the kick shaft (A), align the punch mark (C) on the ratchet with the punch mark (C) on the kick shaft.

98

Note that the idler gear fits with a washer on EACH side (same with the kick gear the shaft goes through)..with the relief of the idler gear toward the INside (and therefore the FLAT of the gear toward the OUTside).

'Relief' meaning 'dish' 'concave side' of the gear.

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street
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Re: Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by street »

thank you so much for that. have done that now seems slightly better cover is temp on till gasket arrives. hopefully be riding it at the weekend if i finish the rest of it.
thanks again
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Re: Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by canyncarvr »

You are most welcome.

If the situation changed, I can assume the noted marks were NOT aligned previously?

If that is the case, even if the situation is not fully resolved...at least the kicker alignment is NOT part of the problem now.

Take care with kicker use if the cover install is not completed. I don't know what 'temp' means, but if the cover is LOOSE, you stand the chance of the main spring tab moving out of position on that nylon piece.

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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by canyncarvr »

Is there an update?

Asking a question, maybe getting it resolved, but not saying so, so no one learnt nothin' is naughty, yanno.

:naughty:

Maybe still waiting on that gasket?

:pop:

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street
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Help! kickstart does not engage properly

Post by street »

update,
have just got gasket and new kickstart ratchet and return spring. hoping to fit it soon should sort it out.
will update when installed.

cheers
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