100 watt stators

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canyncarvr
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100 watt stators

Post by canyncarvr »

Seriously..and honestly, even:

Below is a link to some very good information regarding light-winding in general, also multi-pole and multi-phase winding. IT'S EVEN GOT PITCHERS!

Clicky!

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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by Roadhazardguy »

Good stuff! I'll have to read it better later.
Tony
1988 KDX 200
1980 KD 80
1989 ATK 406
1984 RM 500
1980 KZ 1300
2008 SM450R
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100 watt stators

Post by rbates9 »

canyncarvr wrote:
OBviously, I have too much time on my hands. I know that is true 'cuz I read it on the innernet!
+1 :mrgreen:
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100 watt stators

Post by canyncarvr »

The plot thickens.....

I wasn't getting the import of some posts on this thread having to do with rewinds, winds, and stators.

...'cuz I hadn't read THIS.

I really...REALLY want to hear how that goes.

No...I'm not poking at anyone about it. I'm looking forward to learning something. How such an idea could possibly work is w-a-y outside my understanding.

..which has nothing to do with its viability. Ha! If 'things' only worked that I understood, there wouldn't be a lot going on in this time-space continuim.



THIS is a good read.

In case the link goes away..this is the crux of the matter from Mark Seibert:

99

The comment section for the above pic has a brief explanation.

Note how the firing of the plug in a magneto is determined..how the 'E-gap' works. Yes..the KDX setup is not a magneto, but a CDI. Still, the trigger is the same.

Ever take note (on a V-8 as an example) that a crankshaft timing gear is keyed? As is the gear on the camshaft? But..flywheels (nothing crank-trigger related) are not? The first two gears involve a TIMING situation..where 'something' has to happen at a PARTICULAR time. Not so with the flywheel (in this example).

Certainly it is possible to determing the E-gap point on a stator with windings that have been repositioned, but most of us peons would be limited to the empirical method to get there. That's problematic.

All of this gets back to the earlier part: I DO look forward to how this works out.

Please do carry on!!


:pop:

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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by Roadhazardguy »

I thought you had already read that. Like I said I don't know if it will even work. I think I mentioned it: I'm kinda concerned with the actual length of the coil & magnets but the G4 and KD80 use the same coil and have different length magnets. Anyway assuming all goes well and you know a lot more about this stuff so... should I wrap the first coil one way and then the next coil the opposite (both with 18ga wire since I want higher wattage). And should I connect both coils in parallel or run separate wires for each coil straight to the voltage regulator?
Tony
1988 KDX 200
1980 KD 80
1989 ATK 406
1984 RM 500
1980 KZ 1300
2008 SM450R
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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by canyncarvr »

No. I do not know a lot more..indeed I don't know much at all. Please don't mix 'opinionated' with 'knowledgeable' (read the sig line!! ;) ). While I DO try to mean something..and make some SENSE of it at the same time, I also do effuse total BS from time to time just for fun.

This is not the latter.

What I do not understand is how it is possible (easy or simply anyway) to take a different stator..with different timing (by virtue of stator coil placement), run it under a flywheel/rotor with a completely different magnet structure..and expect ANYthing to happen that is good.

Again..I'm not throwing cold water on the idea..just saying I have NO understanding how that could possibly work. The E-gap would have to be determined and the 'ignition' coil would have to be repositioned to make the spark timing correct.


The stator shown in the KTM link in an above post is the sort of thing you are after (assuming that making a multi-pole stator is the plan)..with the OEM 'ignition' coil in the OEM position.

If you MOVE the ignition coil..you open up a great big can-o-worms, seems to me.

You put a lot of effort into reforming the G4 (whatever) plate. Put that effort into reconfiguring the OEM KDX plate?

BTW. I realize 'ignition coil' is not the correct terminology. I use it because it might be the most easily understood phrase in this discussion. 'Excitor', 'Pulsar'...there are other terms that fit much better.

To answer your question:
...should I wrap the first coil one way and then the next coil the opposite (both with 18ga wire since I want higher wattage). And should I connect both coils in parallel or run separate wires for each coil straight to the voltage regulator?
One way then the other? If you mean CW followed by CCW..according to the rewind page above..yes.

Connecting the two coils in parallel is a no-go. Consider: You would be connecting the 'pulse' of one coil and forcing (by way of the connection) it to be on the same wire as a completely differently timed and generated pulse of another coil.

That is where the Big Beer simile comes in. You can't do that.

With your house still connected to utility power, hook up a generator to your service entry. Start your genny, flip the CB through which you have the genny connected (in parallel to utility power)...and

..watch all sorts of things smoke, blow up, and catch fire!

**edit** The font size above was intended to be larger than default..not unreadably small. I used a /size font number that's worked fine before, missed that it did NOT work now. Don't know how I missed it. Too small to notice... **edit**

The point is not that the bike would blow up and catch fire. The above example involves thousands of watts..hundreds of amps at high voltage. The end result would be the same.

No good things.

The two power pulses would do more of a cancelling each other out than anything else. One would be trying to go 'high' while the other would be trying to go 'low'.

Next: Separate wires for each?

Another no-go.

That was the point of the linked 'how to' on the KTM stator: A good write-up with pictures (and some excellent tips..like his brass spoon) that shows..well...how to. You use ONE piece of wire, wound DIFFERENTLY on each pole, ending up with...one piece of wire that has two ENDS to it! :wink:

That assumes you do float the ground. If you don't, you finish with only ONE end!

A btw, maybe...but Inda did a good lot of fussing with a floating ground and a rectifier/regulator (NOT what is used on the KDX). He and I talked back and forth about it a good bit. I am not aware that he ever got the idea to work satisfactorily. I recall he scrapped the idea. He was using the OEM stator, NOT a multi-pole re-fit.
Last edited by canyncarvr on 03:20 pm Nov 17 2012, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by Roadhazardguy »

I guess I'll just read up on this stuff and try to understand it to the best of my ability then just see what happens. If it doesn't work maybe I can change something to fix it. Oh well, we'll see...
Tony
1988 KDX 200
1980 KD 80
1989 ATK 406
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1980 KZ 1300
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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by Roadhazardguy »

I can't receive PM's canyncarvr.
Last edited by Roadhazardguy on 04:02 pm Dec 21 2015, edited 1 time in total.
Tony
1988 KDX 200
1980 KD 80
1989 ATK 406
1984 RM 500
1980 KZ 1300
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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by canyncarvr »

Well...then howcome 'ya got a PM button.

Who runs this outfit, anyway? :lol:

Oh...so THAT's the reason I went to 'not in Kansas anymore' when I hit the 'submit' button. Hhhmmm...I should'a paid more attencion-'eh

I'll send what I sent to where I can send it..to.

Send the man some $$!! Support this great cause!! :naughty:

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100 watt stators

Post by rbates9 »

Legend has it that the SR had a duel lighting coil set up stock. Is there a photograph of the mythical creature? If the stories are true then was it a completely different set up or another standard coil on a revised stator plate? Is there a wiring diagram of how the lighting circuit was set up on them with any kind of detail of the coil set up?
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100 watt stators

Post by rbates9 »

I just found this thread http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8846 and then looked back at the (poor quality) picture of my stator plate and it almost looks like the H series has room for another lighting coil already with some light modification.. I will have to take another look next time I have the cover off.
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100 watt stators

Post by canyncarvr »

Reworking an OEM KDX stator plate (adding poles) makes more sense than using an existing and unknown stator from some other machine.

By using the OEM stator, you wouldn't have to worry about the igniter/pulsar/ignition coil being in a different position, wrong value, no workee....

...i think.

Somebody get some poles from their buddy Ricky Stator..drill some holes, mount some WATTS.

...this just in....

Mr. RBates has accepted the offer!

Keep us peons posted! ..and thank you for your research and developement!!

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100 watt stators

Post by rbates9 »

As soon as the extra coil your sending gets here I'll get right on it.
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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by Roadhazardguy »

As soon as I get some spare cash in my paypal I'll send it to "The Man", but I don't have a PM button and nether do you..

Ok so here is my plan as of now: Once I get it running with the KDX stator I will mark the flywheel in accordance to where i get spark with a timing light, and I can get drill holes in the G4 plate to "get it close" then slot the holes to get it where I need it. From there I can move on to getting the lighting coils working. I plan on wrapping them with 18 AWG wire one coil wrapped opposite of the other and in parallel out to a universal 12v voltage regulator then from there to a HI/LO/OFF headlight switch and finally out to two 4" H3 style lights (one light on low, both lights on high) starting out with 35 watt halogen bulbs, I'll go up from there or maybe even switch to HID if everything works out. Big hopes i know but I figure nothing ever got done by just assuming it wont work.

Oh and my back up plan if the G4 igniter coil doesn't work is to modify the plate to run the KDX coil, I have room but I'm saving that for last because there's no going back(on that plate) once I do it.
Tony
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1980 KD 80
1989 ATK 406
1984 RM 500
1980 KZ 1300
2008 SM450R
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100 watt stators

Post by rbates9 »

Don't forget to take pictures.
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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by Roadhazardguy »

I will. I need to get my ass in gear and put the tusk case splitter to use so I can get the crank sent off.
Tony
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1980 KD 80
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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by rbates9 »

Roadhazardguy wrote:I will. I need to get my ass in gear and put the tusk case splitter to use so I can get the crank sent off.
After you use the case splitter, if you would, could you put a write up of how it worked out for you on http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=12241 . That way it will be a little easier for people to find if they want to know.
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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by Roadhazardguy »

Yeah sure thing.
Tony
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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by gregp »

I re-wound my lighting coil earlier this year. I used 18 ga (I think). I gave the rest of the wire away to somebody on this board. It works! I can not say that I was super careful during the re-wind. I over wound it at first, and had to unwind some, and cut it off. The issue is not that the coil will hit the inside radius of the flywheel, it is that any over size will hit the inner face of the flywheel. Some things worth mentioning: 1) Be very careful when prying the old epoxy off of the old coils. I managed to snap an ear off of the little plastic "Cage" that the coils are wound on. 2) The end of the magnet wire will be difficult to solder to the steel terminal. Be sure you take a few minutes to thoroughly clean both the terminal and the end of the magnet wire with fine sand paper. Use flux and a good, strong solder gun. You will need to heat them both quickly, and the mass of both items can soak up a lot of heat if you heat source is weak.
I am now able to power my 35/35w high/low beam (Tusk bright white bulb), a high beam LED indicator (required in my state), a regular tail/brake light bulb, directionals, and even my horn (barely) without any battery at all. I passed inspection! I now have one of the few street legal KDX's in Massachusetts, and I am happy about that.
Folks should be aware that the stock lighting coil is sized to just power the stock lighting - ie: a 35w headlight, and a 7w(?) tail light. there is maybe enough left over to run 4 LED directionals, but certainly not enough for regular incandescent directionals (I tried). If you are going for street legal lighting, a problem you will occur when you activate the rear brake light, or hit the horn.
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Re: 100 watt stators

Post by diymirage »

gregp wrote:I re-wound my lighting coil earlier this year. I used 18 ga (I think). I gave the rest of the wire away to somebody on this board.

im pretty sure i was on the recieving end of that
im planning on rewinding the coil on my project bike and then sending it on to the next member who needs it
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
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