My new upgrades -first ride report
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My new upgrades -first ride report
Hi all,
so, just put in my first 70 miles on my fresh upgrades and wanted to share a few opinions,and get some info on what others might thing/suggest for my setup.
the bike - 2003 KDX 220R with very low miles, bone stock
The upgrades -
FMF desert pipe
Boyeseen super stock dual stage reeds
Twin air air filter
RB designs carb and head mod
Weisco piston/topend
Fresh replating on cylinder
stock gearing 13/47T
The results -
frankly, I wasn't blow away, but I hope its a setup issue not a mod issue. The bike has more power, hands down. its a wheelie machine. the problem is its making power more on the top end of the curve and a bit flat coming off the bottom. for example, on sections I could normally lug third (220 tractor power), I found myself fanning the clutch to get the bike up on the pipe, and then holding the hell on. I also shifted more today between 2-3 than I can remember in a long time. It felt like riding a souped up 125 2T with all the shifting. on some faster sections, I used to run the entire straight in 3rd (lug to over rev), but now have to use 2-4 and about out of 4th at the end of the same section.
All in all, I THINK I was faster today. I did 20 more miles than I normally do in less time, and found myself keeping my speed up to stay on the pipe - plus the exhaust note sounds SWEET so I did keep it on the pipe more. Maybe I should stop my whining, eh? but, I have clearly lost my low end tractor pull. I also had the bike loss power mid hill when I came off line and had to either fan clutch, or drop gear to make it up - I used to be able to chug chug at low rpms.
Changes in setup??
so, not sure how to get some of my tractor grunt back. I'm thinking my jetting that Ron setup might be off. when the bike got in a flat spot, you could go full throttle and it would just sit there until you fanned the clutch. maybe up in pilot jet or raise needle one spot? I''m also thinking the stock gearing might be messing with me. so many shifts between 2-3, maybe drop the counter sprocket to a 12T?
Other thoughts?
thanks all
so, just put in my first 70 miles on my fresh upgrades and wanted to share a few opinions,and get some info on what others might thing/suggest for my setup.
the bike - 2003 KDX 220R with very low miles, bone stock
The upgrades -
FMF desert pipe
Boyeseen super stock dual stage reeds
Twin air air filter
RB designs carb and head mod
Weisco piston/topend
Fresh replating on cylinder
stock gearing 13/47T
The results -
frankly, I wasn't blow away, but I hope its a setup issue not a mod issue. The bike has more power, hands down. its a wheelie machine. the problem is its making power more on the top end of the curve and a bit flat coming off the bottom. for example, on sections I could normally lug third (220 tractor power), I found myself fanning the clutch to get the bike up on the pipe, and then holding the hell on. I also shifted more today between 2-3 than I can remember in a long time. It felt like riding a souped up 125 2T with all the shifting. on some faster sections, I used to run the entire straight in 3rd (lug to over rev), but now have to use 2-4 and about out of 4th at the end of the same section.
All in all, I THINK I was faster today. I did 20 more miles than I normally do in less time, and found myself keeping my speed up to stay on the pipe - plus the exhaust note sounds SWEET so I did keep it on the pipe more. Maybe I should stop my whining, eh? but, I have clearly lost my low end tractor pull. I also had the bike loss power mid hill when I came off line and had to either fan clutch, or drop gear to make it up - I used to be able to chug chug at low rpms.
Changes in setup??
so, not sure how to get some of my tractor grunt back. I'm thinking my jetting that Ron setup might be off. when the bike got in a flat spot, you could go full throttle and it would just sit there until you fanned the clutch. maybe up in pilot jet or raise needle one spot? I''m also thinking the stock gearing might be messing with me. so many shifts between 2-3, maybe drop the counter sprocket to a 12T?
Other thoughts?
thanks all
- rbates9
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My new upgrades -first ride report
I'm sure I will get shot down for this but,
I have a RB carb on my 200 and have noticed that when the carb is set up right then it screams! But, getting and keeping the carb jetted to that point is getting to be more trouble then I think the power gains are worth. To me the carb is a good power improvement and makes the bike run better over all but I do not really enjoy screwing with the jetting all the time and would rather spend my time riding. The bottom end is where I seem to have the most trouble when the carb needs attention. The place I ride the most has a parking lot at about 300' and the highest point is about 1900' with temps in the morning somewhere around 60-65 deg up to 85+deg by the end of the day.
I have been looking for a new stock carb.
I have a RB carb on my 200 and have noticed that when the carb is set up right then it screams! But, getting and keeping the carb jetted to that point is getting to be more trouble then I think the power gains are worth. To me the carb is a good power improvement and makes the bike run better over all but I do not really enjoy screwing with the jetting all the time and would rather spend my time riding. The bottom end is where I seem to have the most trouble when the carb needs attention. The place I ride the most has a parking lot at about 300' and the highest point is about 1900' with temps in the morning somewhere around 60-65 deg up to 85+deg by the end of the day.
I have been looking for a new stock carb.
- CoronasAndChips
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Re: My new upgrades -first ride report
Trail riding for me (02' 200) I was using stock gearing then I threw on a 12t front to see what it was like (equal to a 13/51 combo). I had to shift way too much but helped when correcting for a mistake in a long corner (4th or 5th gear)by wicking it up when I needed. I can corner much better now and switched to a 13/49 combo and really like it.
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BFBC2, BF3, COD 2,3,4, Black Ops, Red Dead Redemption, Tiger Woods 08' and 09' and Forza 2..... mostly
- SS109
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My new upgrades -first ride report
OP, you could advance your timing just a bit to dial in some more bottom end.
As for the RB carb, so far the only changes I have made from how Ron shipped it was to raise the needle (richer) one notch and adjust the air screw. I have not noticed a loss of power anywhere and it has instant response to throttle input.
As for the RB carb, so far the only changes I have made from how Ron shipped it was to raise the needle (richer) one notch and adjust the air screw. I have not noticed a loss of power anywhere and it has instant response to throttle input.
Youtube Channel: WildAzzRacing
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
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Re: My new upgrades -first ride report
Thanks ss109. I'm hoping its the setup, cause the power is definitely there. I think I'll start with the carb and change the needle first, then play with the pilot to fine tune. Any good threads on 220R timing advance? I might do that next, not sure how. loosen the stator and rotate I'm guessing, just not sure how much. I think once I get that sorted out, then I will still have to play around with final gearing.
- SS109
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My new upgrades -first ride report
Yeah, loosen the stator plate and rotate it clockwise (IIRC) to advance it, counter clockwise to retard. You'll see three timing marks. The middle mark is what the factory sets it at. You can run anywhere between the two end marks but do NOT go past them as a little goes a long way! I wouldn't go more than half the distance between the middle mark and the advanced mark without riding it to see if that does what you want. Remember, like everything there are trades offs. To get more bottom you will lose some top and vice versa.
Youtube Channel: WildAzzRacing
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
- zomby woof
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My new upgrades -first ride report
I'd put money on it that your bottom end would come back if you bolted on a stock carb.
Ontario, Canada
- Slick_Nick
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My new upgrades -first ride report
Do a search for the "SSS" on the RB carb. Find it, and you will have mre low end grunt than you ever did before. It's a tuning issue, trust me.
'00 KDX 220R
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My new upgrades -first ride report
To me all the work you have done to your motor is to open up the mid/top end performance of your 220 ..your bound to loose a little bottom end performance with these extra mods..the desert pipe moves the power curve anyway & RB carb mod helps things to get going from mid/top ,i have a woods pipe & a 35mm carb with a boysen rad valve, my bottom end pull is really really great but the power flattens out near the top... i guess we cant have everything.
- SS109
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My new upgrades -first ride report
Yep!Slick_Nick wrote:Do a search for the "SSS" on the RB carb. Find it, and you will have mre low end grunt than you ever did before. It's a tuning issue, trust me.
Again, yep! Most complain that the 220 signs off too early and all those mods help to improve mid-top performance to more like a 200. However, the head mod and carb also help with bottom end power. Like Nick said, it is a tuning issue.cornishwrecker220 wrote:To me all the work you have done to your motor is to open up the mid/top end performance of your 220 ..your bound to loose a little bottom end performance with these extra mods..the desert pipe moves the power curve anyway & RB carb mod helps things to get going from mid/top...
Seriously, adjust the timing, dial in the carb, maybe swap to a 48 or 49 rear sprocket, and I would put money on it that you will find the grunt you are looking for.
Youtube Channel: WildAzzRacing
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
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Re: My new upgrades -first ride report
Ok, this is great stuff, thanks guys. I'm going to try tuning the carb and the timing next weekend. I'll report back. I too think it's tuning and haven't thrown in the towel yet.
- kawagumby
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Re: My new upgrades -first ride report
My 220 has the same mods as yours except I'm running a 200 carb on it. It has gobs of low end with lots of rev out. Try tuning the carb low end circuits a little on the rich side to start and see what happens. There is absolutely no reason to change gearing - the grunt is there, you just need to find it - this is my 3rd 220 and they don't lack power anywhere when setup right.
1994 KDX200, Beta 200rr, yz125, yz250, kx100 modded for adult, gasgas contact 250.
- B737driver
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My new upgrades -first ride report
The pipe...staying on the pipe . It's like music to the ears. Enjoy...A lot more clutch work, but faster in the long run.
Live to Fly
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Fly to Live
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My new upgrades -first ride report
I installed a smaller pilot (#35), DEK on 5th position from top, and #155 main. Works for me.
KX 250, KDX 220, KDX 220, KDX 200, CR 80
I don't believe in a society where the thrill of living is traded for the safety of existance---Nick Inatsch
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- diymirage
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My new upgrades -first ride report
rbates9 wrote: I have been looking for a new stock carb.
i dont have a brand new one but i have a nice stocker on my project bike i wouldnt mind trading you if your interested
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.
-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
- kawagumby
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My new upgrades -first ride report
B737driver wrote:The pipe...staying on the pipe . It's like music to the ears. Enjoy...A lot more clutch work, but faster in the long run.
A properly setup 220 with a rev pipe is a low through mid-range machine, with decent run-out. It will feel like a 200 with a woods pipe but much more low end. No xtra clutching required.
1994 KDX200, Beta 200rr, yz125, yz250, kx100 modded for adult, gasgas contact 250.
- dude541
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My new upgrades -first ride report
i have a 2001 220r,with pretty much the exact same mods as listed above (apart from i have done the airbox lid mod)
recently got my head and carb back from rb,first start up bike sounded great,nice and crisp (rons jetting/setup) so got out on it today.
bottom end is definately improved,along with top end!
i am sure there is more to come also,so it will now be going to my local dyno to get checked/setup.
very happy with the rb mods so far
regards
john
recently got my head and carb back from rb,first start up bike sounded great,nice and crisp (rons jetting/setup) so got out on it today.
bottom end is definately improved,along with top end!
i am sure there is more to come also,so it will now be going to my local dyno to get checked/setup.
very happy with the rb mods so far
regards
john
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Re: My new upgrades -first ride report
Ok, so thanks again all for the input. I've done my second ride today trying some changes. bottom line (before I start rambling) its better, its ridable, and has the ability to be lugged more than the first ride.
so I changed the jetting and got some better results, although, not everything I would have liked. the bike is now what I'd call a mid range bike. It can lug a bit, even on a hill if you come off line, but the real power doesnt come until it hits the pipe (then hold on). the "lugging" of third out of tight corners works, most of the time, but if you are in trouble (hill, scrubed a lot of speed), you must slip the clutch. its just a hair off picking its self up. I *THINK* if I added 1 or 2 teeth in the rear, the lower end power would be where I wanted it. for example when riding it, if I come out of a corner into a long straight and "get on it" the bike accelerates hard for about 20 feet, THEN lifts the front tire up right before I'm about to shift to 4th - and if I shift there, the front is staying up until I let off, or hit a tree - which ever comes first.
IMO, the 220 in stock form had a real tractor, 4 stroke like pull quality that has been replaced with a decent low end, super mid range punch, and the ability to over rev a bit. Again, I think I am faster now than I was before (or maybe I just feel faster cause the bikes on the pipe a lot more??), but it does take a bit more work to ride. That said, I was grinning all day so it couldnt have been that bad - but I think I can get it a little better.
So on the jetting - just for anyone else going down this road later - here is what I had, and here is how I changed it. keep in mind, this is on the RB mod carb, and yes by air box lid is gone (with better air filter too + other mods listed on first post).
on the first ride it was:
Main - 150
Pilot - 40
Needle CEK with clip in the mid position
Air screw 1 turn out
Changed to:
dropped pilot to a 38 -and played with Air screw - it was worst
Changed to:
42 pilot with Air screw 2 turns out - it was better, the bottom end came back, but wouldn't pull up on the pipe (transition from bottom to pipe) as much as I would like. some times it came up, but any hill and your not coming up on the pipe w/o a downshift or clutch fanning
Changed to:
keep 42 pilot, moved needle clip down 1 (4th from top, or one level richer) - this was what I rode on all day and it was good (yet not great)
I did noticed with this jetting change, I got a throttle "blip" when I let off - like the rpms would drop (coasting in to a corner) then come up just a bit. I overshot a few corners, so will need to turn that out. maybe idle too high, or need to play with Air screw some more?
I used one of these gizmos today, pretty cool. takes in ALL air factors (temp, altitude, pressure, humidity) to give you one term, density altitude. unlike a RAD gauge that just tells you effective change in air density, this actually tells you that ALL THINGS considered, the carb THINKS its at this altitude. handly if you want to refer to a mfg altitude jetting chart...for example, I was a ~1200 feet today, but the carb was working like it was at ~2300 ft. cool eh? all these toys, and I still jet like I am at the eye doctor - "is it better now? how about now..??"
so I changed the jetting and got some better results, although, not everything I would have liked. the bike is now what I'd call a mid range bike. It can lug a bit, even on a hill if you come off line, but the real power doesnt come until it hits the pipe (then hold on). the "lugging" of third out of tight corners works, most of the time, but if you are in trouble (hill, scrubed a lot of speed), you must slip the clutch. its just a hair off picking its self up. I *THINK* if I added 1 or 2 teeth in the rear, the lower end power would be where I wanted it. for example when riding it, if I come out of a corner into a long straight and "get on it" the bike accelerates hard for about 20 feet, THEN lifts the front tire up right before I'm about to shift to 4th - and if I shift there, the front is staying up until I let off, or hit a tree - which ever comes first.
IMO, the 220 in stock form had a real tractor, 4 stroke like pull quality that has been replaced with a decent low end, super mid range punch, and the ability to over rev a bit. Again, I think I am faster now than I was before (or maybe I just feel faster cause the bikes on the pipe a lot more??), but it does take a bit more work to ride. That said, I was grinning all day so it couldnt have been that bad - but I think I can get it a little better.
So on the jetting - just for anyone else going down this road later - here is what I had, and here is how I changed it. keep in mind, this is on the RB mod carb, and yes by air box lid is gone (with better air filter too + other mods listed on first post).
on the first ride it was:
Main - 150
Pilot - 40
Needle CEK with clip in the mid position
Air screw 1 turn out
Changed to:
dropped pilot to a 38 -and played with Air screw - it was worst
Changed to:
42 pilot with Air screw 2 turns out - it was better, the bottom end came back, but wouldn't pull up on the pipe (transition from bottom to pipe) as much as I would like. some times it came up, but any hill and your not coming up on the pipe w/o a downshift or clutch fanning
Changed to:
keep 42 pilot, moved needle clip down 1 (4th from top, or one level richer) - this was what I rode on all day and it was good (yet not great)
I did noticed with this jetting change, I got a throttle "blip" when I let off - like the rpms would drop (coasting in to a corner) then come up just a bit. I overshot a few corners, so will need to turn that out. maybe idle too high, or need to play with Air screw some more?
I used one of these gizmos today, pretty cool. takes in ALL air factors (temp, altitude, pressure, humidity) to give you one term, density altitude. unlike a RAD gauge that just tells you effective change in air density, this actually tells you that ALL THINGS considered, the carb THINKS its at this altitude. handly if you want to refer to a mfg altitude jetting chart...for example, I was a ~1200 feet today, but the carb was working like it was at ~2300 ft. cool eh? all these toys, and I still jet like I am at the eye doctor - "is it better now? how about now..??"
- SS109
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My new upgrades -first ride report
Seriously, try advancing your timing a bit. Advancing it will give more low to mid whereas retarding it will give more mid to top.
Youtube Channel: WildAzzRacing
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
AZ State Parks & Trails OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
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Re: My new upgrades -first ride report
I will try that next ride. Was going to try that yesterday but 1)started having fun riding and 2)got a flat tire. I'll chime back after I try adv the timing.