I broke KIPS

[terminatr]

I got the replated cylinder and new piston back on. And I was trying to put on the
advancer shaft lever. I turned the advancer shaft gently with a wrench, to see
how far it will turn. As I was turning that shaft, I heard a pop behind the engine cover.
And now the shaft has no spring tension. What did I mess up?

Btw, the advancer shaft is the one with the left-handed thread.

2001 KDX 220 R

[SS109]

You didn't support the shaft, did ya? You broke the pin that engages the governor down inside the case most likely.

[scheckaet]

I turned the advancer shaft gently with a wrench, to see
how far it will turn.
Why?
Sometimes i wonder why i post the same stuff over and over
http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopi ... 57#p117919
lucky 4 u the part cost only 5 bux.

[diymirage]

lucky 4 u the part cost only 5 bux.

and another $10.95 for the inner clutch cover gasket
oh, and 5 dollars worth of ATF oil ;)

[KDXGarage]

OOOPS. It sounds like you failed to support it with a wrench.

[terminatr]

It didn't break !

The pin jumped out of the groove. But didn't break.
I reused the side cover gasket. But I did have to buy 1 qt of ATF ($4 cheap stuff) and
suffer two more hours in the very hot garage.

Just finished my first top end rebuild. It's definitely not as fast and easy as I was
beliveing.

[SS109]

You got very lucky! I hope you remember this when you do your next servicinging on the KIPS.

[scheckaet]

your are not out of the woods yet. I strongly suggest you'd replace that, it is probably bent / weakened and it WILL fail, maybe not on the 1st ride but it will. Ask me how I know.
you've been forewarned...

[terminatr]

Ok thanks. I'll replace that pin soon. Opening the side cover wasn't as terrifying as I thought it would be.

[canyncarvr]

Next time, lay the bike on its side, then you won't have to replace the oil. Yes, that is a bad plan for a number of reasons..but you can easily save the oil that way.

I don't think you can twist the governor rod past its operating limit (have it 'pop out') without bending the pin.

A general rule to keep in mind when wrenching on stuff: Don't force (or even move) 'stuff' backwards.

Think of the forces applied TO the governor shaft as the centrifugal activation assembly functions. Then, consider forcing that assembly BACKWARDS..prying the spring assembly OPEN by twisting the shaft and the forces applied that way.

Not the same thing, 'eh?

With the governor shaft disconnected from the KIPS, the cylinder components should move easily using your fingers.

Can you 'open' the spring assembly with your fingers?

OK..given that you have vise-grips for fingers..maybe you can. BUT, the forces required are NOT the same.

I strongly suggest you'd replace that, it is probably bent / weakened and it WILL fail, maybe not on the 1st ride but it will.

Amen.

That means now..not at some more convenient other time.

Your chances of completely destroying the engine at this point are very good.

[terminatr]

Well. It's not going to happen "now". I ordered the pin from Rocky Mtn last night. Just checked my order, and it says the pin is on backorder until Sept !!! Somebody hoarding these pins?

[canyncarvr]

There are other parts providers.

Try RonAyers. You would have to call to find out if they can get it. I'm sure their website does not list current availability. They order from their supplier as they need parts to ship.

800-888-3084

SKU QTY Your Price List Price Total Price
185196 LEVER-COMP,GOVERNOR (13236-1260) X $5.70 (List $8.26) $5.70

[terminatr]

I called the local Kaw dealer. Guy said have it here by the end of the week. But the catch is
that it's $10 plus tax. What the heck! MSRP is only 8.26. Internet is selling them for $6. I buy
stuff from dealer seldom. But everytime I do, they price gauge me over MSRP.

So do walk-in customers get screwed or something? Do mechanics get special pricing or what?
As much as I prefer to support the local economy, sometimes I wish the internet competition crushes them to death.

[canyncarvr]

I'll pay maybe 20% more to buy something locally. By the time I figure shipping..and what it costs the local outfit to simply ORDER the part (let alone stock/inventory the part if they do that)..the extra is worth it just to have the local outfit stay open.

Or...you could wait 'til September for RMMC to get it....

The price difference is going to seem insignificant if that pin lets loose and you blow holes in your cases.

Not trying to make a big deal out of nothing. It's happened before. And not just once or twice.

[amstel78]

Out of curiosity, what is that pin made off? If you turn the actuator a little by hand just to ensure it's not broken and there's still tension, is that enough to damage it?

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

[terminatr]

It's made out of steel. Maybe here's an opportunity for industrious enterprenur to capitalize
by making a super strong pin that never will break even if you turn the advancer
shaft unsupported.

[terminatr]

Well, I still hate dealership. Went there to pay for the part. When they try to order it
on the computer, the part is now shown out-of-stock. So they can't guarantee it getting here
by this week, or even next week. That's great. After driving 45 minutes in my lunch hour...
nothing.

[canyncarvr]

Out of curiosity, what is that pin made off?
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

As noted: It's steel.

The strength of the material is not the issue. It's the leverage/force applied. The pin itself does not generally break/bend, but the bracket that attaches the pin to the governor rod gets tweaked.

If you turn the actuator a little by hand just to ensure it's not broken and there's still tension, is that enough to damage it?

No.

.
.
.

But....

Ensuring it's not broken doesn't tell you that it is not bent. If it is bent, you will still feel tension..but not KNOW if the pin is bent...or not. IF the assembly is bent, it is likely fractured, and it will likely break. Eventually.

Also, there is a HUGE difference between turning it 'a little' by hand to feel if it's 'there' and turning it far enough to move it OUT of place (as was indicated by the OP).

Consider (I don't know this..I'm making up the actual numbers. BUT...the basics fit the situation): The centrifugal assembly will 'open' 3/8". The distance from the pin to the shaft is 1/2". Under normal operation, the opening being less than the radius of proscribed movement of the governor rod/pin is of no consequence. It ensures the rod stays IN the slot (and properly oriented..not over-center) to the spring assembly opening as the spring assembly moves the governor rod.

BUT...turn the ROD and force the spring assy full open..and you still have 1/8" of radius to travel. To KEEP turning it (not much force..you 'only' have a liddle wrench on the rod flats..no big deal... ) farther, FORCES the pin to bend. What seems like 'no big deal' force-wise to you will easily bend the piece that holds the actuating pin to the governor rod.


No reason the dealer could not have checked the status of the part (if ordering) or confirmed they actually had one on hand (if they had said they did). If RMMC says it's BO 'til September..that's a Big Red Flag sayin' availability through someone else MUST be verified.

Repeat: Do email/phone Ayers and verify that THEY can get it...if you go that route.

Good luck!

[amstel78]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I only asked about turning it gently by hand is because I did that earlier this morning after tightening the reverse nut. I of course supported the shaft so no real torque was applied to the pin. After tightening the nut, I twisted the lever slightly with my fingers to ensure tightness. As such, the shaft moved a little and I could feel spring tension. I did not force it past that.

Just wanted to make sure I didn't damage anything. From what I've read, I'd imagine this pin to be so delicate that I'm paranoid now.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

[Julien D]

It's not all that delicate. The issue comes when trying to loosen or tighten the nut without supporting the shaft.