Clutch never completely disengaged?

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amstel78
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Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by amstel78 »

Quick question... I've noticed that when in 1st gear (or any gear) and clutch lever pulled back, it feels as if the friction plates are never completely disengaged from the flywheel. It so sometimes happens that if I slow down enough in 1st gear, the engine can stall. Rolling down hill in 1st with the clutch pulled back also has an effect on engine speed; the faster the bike rolls, the faster the RPM goes up. So I know the clutch in 1st is never completely disengaged. I think I read somewhere before that this is normal on a dirt bike. Personally, I don't think so... never experienced that on my 2 street bikes. I've checked the clutch cable tension and it seems to be adjusted as far as it can go which could signify time to replace the clutch cable. Before I do, just wanted to get your input.
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Re: Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by amstel78 »

Just went out to test a few things. Bike does start in gear, although it does lurch a little bit. I do have to give it a bit of throttle to start in any gear with the clutch disengaged. Hopefully clutch basket isn't notched and springs are OK... at least that's what I think after being able to start the bike in gear.

Once warmed up, kicking it into first gear from neutral with clutch disengaged and giving it throttle, the bike will not creep. Again, another good sign. I adjusted the cable to get a good balance and I think I've hit the sweet spot but the clutch still seems to never fully disengage. Again, not used to dirt bikes so for all I know, this may very well be normal behavior. I don't recall my R6 and CBR900RR ever doing this though.

I'm using a heavier 80wt (BelRay) gear oil rather than the recommended 10W-30 the manual calls for. I don't know what type oil the PO had in their, but the clutch behavior was similar.
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amstel78
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Re: Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by amstel78 »

A picture of the clutch actuator when clutch engaged:
Image

And here is the actuator when the clutch is disengaged:
Image

Normal?

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Julien D
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Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by Julien D »

Sounds pretty normal to me. You have to remember, a motorcycle wet clutch is not at all like the clutch you have in a car/truck. There are the stack of plates, always spinning, when you release pressure on the stack, there is still some amount of friction there.
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amstel78
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Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by amstel78 »

Julien D wrote:Sounds pretty normal to me. You have to remember, a motorcycle wet clutch is not at all like the clutch you have in a car/truck. There are the stack of plates, always spinning, when you release pressure on the stack, there is still some amount of friction there.
Fair enough. The bike switches through all gears just fine. I can also start in gear so that isn't too much of an issue. One thing I neglected to mention is that I'm having trouble finding neutral when the bike's running. I can get into it if I reach down and find neutral with my hand but I'm having a helluva time getting it with my foot from either 1st or 2nd gear. It seems hard to get it out of first into neutral without accidentally going straight up to second.

Anyway, I adjusted the cable a bit more so I think it's a tad better but the adjuster is almost all of the way out so I think the cable has stretched quite a bit. The clutch drag seems to have lessened substantially that it's now easier to start in any gear without having to give as much throttle. No lurch either. Now all I have to do is figure out if its me having problems finding neutral or the bike itself. I haven't ridden since 2001 when I sold the street bikes!
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Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by rbates9 »

Try different oils in the transmission. I have found that type F ATF works best for my bike.
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Re: Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by amstel78 »

rbates9 wrote:Try different oils in the transmission. I have found that type F ATF works best for my bike.
I'll give that a shot on my next oil change. I just put in Bel-something 80w in this morning and have one 15 minute ride on the new oil. Not sure what the PO had in it before, but had difficulty finding neutral then also.

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Re: Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by SS109 »

amstel78 wrote:
rbates9 wrote:Try different oils in the transmission. I have found that type F ATF works best for my bike.
I'll give that a shot on my next oil change. I just put in Bel-something 80w in this morning and have one 15 minute ride on the new oil. Not sure what the PO had in it before, but had difficulty finding neutral then also.

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Whoa! 80wt anything is way too heavy. The factory calls for 10w30 or 10w40 at the heaviest. Personally, I also run ATF Type F. It is cheaper and my bike shifts smoother with it.
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Re: Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by amstel78 »

SS109 wrote: Whoa! 80wt anything is way too heavy. The factory calls for 10w30 or 10w40 at the heaviest. Personally, I also run ATF Type F. It is cheaper and my bike shifts smoother with it.
I too thought 80w seemed high for a gear oil. I bought it at the bike shop and the BelRay 80w came recommended by the guys there that race. They said they use this stuff in all of their MX bikes. What do I know. I read a few reviews that said the BelRay 80w really wasn't an 80 wt and probably more equivalent to an automotive 10W40 or thereabouts. Not sure.

This is the product I used:
http://www.belray.com/bel-ray-gear-save ... ission-oil

She runs fine and shifts through the cogs without problems. Now that I've adjusted the slack on the clutch cable, I can also start her in gear without any lurching and with minimal throttle. I'll try the ATF type F on the next change and see if there's an improvement.

P.S. I don't have a problem finding neutral when the engine's off. When the engine's running I miss neutral 8 out of 10 times. I can get into neutral with my hand while the motor's running without problem though. Go figure.
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Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by scheckaet »

it seems to me that's an oil related issue. Change brand and use 10w40 10w30 or equivalent.
I used to have the same issue with mine and it stopped after I switched brand.
My DRZ 400 runs horrible with the stuff I use in the KDX so it is kinda bike related. try it see what works 4 u and ur bike. give it a few rides before making up your mind, takes a while.
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Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by amstel78 »

Any particular brand 10W-30 or 10W-40 oil that you guys recommend? Dino oil or full synth?

What about ATF-F oil? Is there any one brand that most prefer over others?

BTW, I did a few more Google searches on Bel-Ray 80W Gear Saver oil, and most state it's equivalent to a 10W-30 synthetic in terms of viscosity.
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Clutch never completely disengaged?

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rbates9
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Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by rbates9 »

I have found that any oil that has "Saver" in the name does not get along with my KDX.

As far as ATF just get any Type F and go with it. The cheaper the better.
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Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by SS109 »

When buying 10w30 or 10w40 always buy motorcycle spec oil meant for a wet clutch. Like rbates said, any brand Type F works just fine.
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Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by amstel78 »

BTW, with regards to the photos I posted above showing the clutch actuator, is what's shown the correct range of motion on a stock bike?
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Clutch never completely disengaged?

Post by SS109 »

Looks about right to me.
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