look what I picked up today!

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the machinist
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Re: look what I picked up today!

Post by the machinist »

That's a hell of a deal!
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canyncarvr
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Re: look what I picked up today!

Post by canyncarvr »

doctord23 wrote:Be sure and check the cases closely.
Ditto

..if 'check' means take 'em apart and remove the crank bearings (if they stay in the case).

My last 'check closely' that did not include splitting the cases and taking the bearings out cost me about $6000 at an hourly rate..meaning it cost $600 to 'fix' what ran for about six minutes.


Then I got to do it all over again (plus crank/tranny bearings, seals, bottom-end rod parts, crank rebuild costs). The subsequent repair was an additional $1200.


I found a piece of rod small-end bearing cage (original failure) between the RH crank bearing and seal when I repaired my 'fix'. :hmm: 1. How the hell did it GET there, and B. How long would it have STAYED there if is went a 2nd round of 'fix' instead of choosing to repair the thing in the first place?

Turns out that's a common occurrence (FOD lurking-to-happen between the bearing/seal).


My first 'check' consisted of flushing the crank cavity with kero several times,leaving each 'flush' sit overnight to settle particles. Fluid was removed with a brake bleeder (not disturbed by flipping the bike down-side-up). Flushes were followed by a crank flossing..stiff paper like a file folder, leading edge bent to fill the crankcase-counterweight gap and liberally greased.

Six minutes. That was all it took to toast it.

Granted, I had mulitple pieces of crud (bearing cage) to deal with, and you may have only one major bit and some minor bits.

Let the learnin' begin!! :grin:

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Post by kawagumby »

"I found a piece of rod small-end bearing cage (original failure) between the RH crank bearing and seal when I repaired my 'fix'. 1. How the hell did it GET there, and B. How long would it have STAYED there if is went a 2nd round of 'fix' instead of choosing to repair the thing in the first place?"


That is amazing. That piece of bearing cage waited patiently until the engine was shut down, then carefully slid over the crank bearing outer race, between the looming cage and balls, until finally hiding next to the seal. Or did it simply appear on the other side of the bearing as yet another bit of quantum stew? Wow.

Either way, that was one determined little piece of metal - and you are right...split the cases and expose every bit of casting.
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Post by scheckaet »

I wasn't planning on it when I 1st got it. I MIGHT have thought about trying the "flushing" method CC described. But the more I though about it the more evidence I got this was just a plain dumb idea. Reading CC post confirmed that gut feeling even more.
I'm not gonna rush it too much, want to keep the cost down as much as I can but I wanna do it right the FIRST time. Patience, patience... :please:
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Post by rbates9 »

Splitting cases ain't that bad. Plus it lets you know whats going on in the rest of the bike. If you had your sh!t together (as far as parts and tools) (which most of us don't when we split the cases) you could go from a complete engine to fully disassembled to back together in probably 3-4 hours with cleaning and inspecting everything.
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Post by scheckaet »

trying to make a list of all the stuff I need before I place an order on RMATV.
what type of case sealer y'all would recommend?
crank bearings+seal: hot rod or all balls?
gasket set: tusk, cometic, athena? they range from 40 to 80 bux :shock: any kit I need to stay away from?
flywheel puller
piston kit

Anything else i might forget? :hmm:


thx
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Post by SS109 »

The Yamabond sealer worked great on my build. So, Yamabond or equivalent I'd say. Sorry, but I don't trust anybody's bearing other than the factory type inside the cases. It may cost a bit more but it is worth the peace of mind IMO. You could possibly source them from a bearing house and get a high quality bearings (no Chinese!) from there a bit cheaper. The Athena set I used was OK. They are not cut very tight so you will see the gaskets pretty easy (especially the green ones) once the engine is assembled. BTW, I bought a genuine Kawasaki base gasket because I knew for sure it would be the proper thickness. The Tusk flywheel puller works perfectly and is cheap. Get the crank installer while you are at it. I will be buying one myself for when I do my KDX250 build. It just makes it all easy.

As for other things, if I were you, I would go ahead and get all the bearings, bushing, and thrust washers for the transmission. It will tighten everything up and you don't want to split the cases again because of trans problems later.
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Post by scheckaet »

they have 3 different kinds of yamabond (4, 5, and 6)
Would the 4 be enough?
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Post by rbates9 »

I used a Pro X gasket set on my last job and was very happy with the quality and fit of the gaskets.
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Post by tirebiter »

scheckaet wrote:they have 3 different kinds of yamabond (4, 5, and 6)
Would the 4 be enough?
I've used this stuff with good results..
http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/58/ ... ndabond-HT

permatex 51813 works well, or Loctite 518- same stuff as the permatex 51813..
Which ever brand is locally available in your area.
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Post by SS109 »

scheckaet wrote:they have 3 different kinds of yamabond (4, 5, and 6)
Would the 4 be enough?
Sorry. Yeah, Yamabond 4 is what I used.
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Post by canyncarvr »

scheckaet wrote:trying to make a list of all the stuff I need before I place an order on RMATV.
what type of case sealer y'all would recommend?
crank bearings+seal: hot rod or all balls?
gasket set: tusk, cometic, athena? they range from 40 to 80 bux :shock: any kit I need to stay away from?
flywheel puller
piston kit

Anything else i might forget? :hmm:


thx

If you're running a tally, my vote is with SS.


If you want to research the part numbers and order, say, NSKs from a bearing provider, fine, but I wouldn't waste the wrench-time putting in anything other than known good bearings. A machinist that has forgotten more than any 10 of us will ever know (not named 'cuz I didn't ask permission to use it) has had problems with hot-rod cranks/parts. He recommends OEM crank parts.

You didn't list a crankshaft install tool. That is one of those 'not required' tools that will make the job much simpler..and eliminate the possibility of crank damage on install. Remember that tool will not work on the RH side without some adaptation method of your own device. I bought antoher RH crank nut, had it turned down to fit inside the Tusk tool.

Remember to send your new piston to PowerSeal ( :cool: ) with your cylinder so they can match their final hone to your part. Don't need to send the pin,clips, or rings.

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Post by scheckaet »

so hot rods crank bearings are no good?
bummer just ordered some from rmatv :?
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Post by scheckaet »

So y'all think the only crank bearing worth it are the OEM ones?
hot rod and all ball = no good?
Anyone tried the one from hot rod before?
I received mine and wondered if i must send them back or not...
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Post by rbates9 »

I have used Hot Rod main bearings with success. I'm not going to say that OEM are no better but I would bet that even OEM bearings that you buy direct from Kawasaki are still a 50/50 chance of not being the same as what came in the bike to begin with. As long as the bearings are of a good quality then I would use them. I would get nervous if the bearings do not have any markings or numbers on them.

Hot Rods, All Balls, and yes even OEM are just middle men for the bearings. They will buy the cheapest bearings they can find that meet the specs they need then repackage them in there own box. Probably the biggest thing to worry about would be that OEM would tend to be a little more specific about the quality of the bearing then an aftermarket company, but the aftermarket still doesn't want to build a bad reputation either.
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Post by SS109 »

I disagree with rbates on this one. I know from my recent rebuild that Kawasaki does in fact use Japanese bearings. Are the Hot Rods bearings Japanese or ??? Who is the actual manufacturer? Anyways, if you do some online searching (Thumper Talk comes to mind) you will find some negative experiences with HR's crank bearings. You can run them and you'll probably be fine. However, the little bit extra in cash for a known quality of bearing that will provide 10+ years of reliable service and peace of mind I think is absolutely worth it.
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Post by rbates9 »

I just went out and looked at the "Pivot works" crank bearings that were in my bike last and they were made by NTN in Japan.

ALL companys will and do buy the cheapest bearings that meet the specifications for the application. It's just the way it is. I am not saying that any aftermarket bearing is as good or better then OEM but they very well could be the same. Or better.
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Post by Slick_Nick »

I go to my local bearing supploy house and just get KOYO replacements for everything. If they don't have KOYO in stock, SKF is great too. And because they arent marked up by pivot works or all balls, they're about 1/2 the price!
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Re: look what I picked up today!

Post by CoronasAndChips »

Why not Timken bearings aren't they made in America?
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