power when kips valve opens? how much?

eroknroll · Post by **eroknroll** » 01:44 am May 08 2012

when the kips valve opens should there be noticable change in how the power of the bike feels? Should I be able to feel the exact moment when the valve opens? I just got on my new bike today that i just finished putting back together and there was just smooth power all over but no hit of power, at least from what I could tell. I believe I put it back together correctly, and I am totally happy with how is rides so i am more looking for a description of how it should be normally. I was expecting something more like a turbo spooling up, or when a variable valve timing car switches to the hot cam. I did decide to leave the kips detent out after reading some posts if that makes a difference.

By the way, this forum is excellent, really great info, and helpful people. Thanks to all.

Post by **Julien D** » 05:35 am May 08 2012

Not like an MX bike, no. The transition should be noticable, but remain pretty smooth. That's part of what makes the KDX such a great woods bike. At the same time, I think you should be able to feel and hear it when the valves open. Were you able to verify that everything is moving correctly under power?

Glad you are enjoying the forums!

Post by **scheckaet** » 09:51 am May 08 2012

you should still feel the change and hear it too.
What type of mods are you running? pipe made a big difference for me.
The needle also made a huge difference. I tried CEK and DEK needles (have the mRBD carb and head), can't recall which one gave a nice MX like hit (nothing like a real MX though) while the other was much smoother and wood friendly (the one i use).

doctord23 · Post by **doctord23** » 10:01 am May 08 2012

You don't say whether it is a 200 or 220.
When I got my first 220 , it had the stock carb and pipe. It had good power, but not a real noticeable power increase when the kips opened.
When I changed to a FMF desert pipe and 200 carb, it became very noticeable when the kips opened, both in power and sound. It doesn't hit like a mx bike, but more like a turbo.
I now also have a 200 with a desert pipe, I definitely can tell when the kips opens on it as well.
It is also important to get your carb jetted properly as they come jetted overly rich from the factory. All of the used KDX's I have bought have needed to be jetted.

Post by **scheckaet** » 10:02 am May 08 2012

the jetting also made a bigggg difference.

eroknroll · Post by **eroknroll** » 10:25 am May 08 2012

It is a 200. Fmf desert pipe and spark arrester, weisco w new rings, new air filter. No other performance mods yet. This is my second motorcycle my first being a trail 70, so this is definitely a whole new world of fun for me. I will pull the side cover off today and make sure it is engaging. I want to get the carb dialed in this weekend. I have to get this thing prepared to smoke my buddies Ktm exc 250 in a drag race. That is my goal for now, which hopefully isn't to lofty.

Post by **scheckaet** » 11:06 am May 08 2012

eroknroll wrote:It is a 200. Fmf desert pipe and spark arrester, weisco w new rings, new air filter. No other performance mods yet. This is my second motorcycle my first being a trail 70, so this is definitely a whole new world of fun for me. I will pull the side cover off today and make sure it is engaging. I want to get the carb dialed in this weekend. I have to get this thing prepared to smoke my buddies Ktm exc 250 in a drag race. That is my goal for now, which hopefully isn't to lofty.

you are definitely on the right path by jetting it properly. Read the jetting guide: http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopi ... 105&t=1156

If you pull the rounded slot cover on the left side you should see if it engages or not.

How much of a lead is the exc 250 willing to give you...cuz good luck on that one. I guess you could always turn off his gas while he's not looking, then you might have a chance.

eroknroll · Post by **eroknroll** » 11:09 am May 08 2012

Oh it's an exc 250 four stroke. So hopefully it's within reach.

eroknroll · Post by **eroknroll** » 11:28 am May 08 2012

So I pulled the slot cover off and low and behold the kips is not engaging. The end gear was able to spin the advancer shaft back and forth with almost zero pressure. Where should I start?

Post by **Julien D** » 11:53 am May 08 2012

Pull the exhaust off and look inside the exhaust left while you move the KIPS actuator by hand. See what moves and what doesn't. There is a center valve and two subvalves. One or more may be stuck or broken.

Post by **scheckaet** » 11:55 am May 08 2012

so you can rotate by hand the horizontal shaft when you remove the round gear?
if so your KIPS actuator is most likely broken. Did you support the shaft to remove the left treaded nut to take clutch cover off?
if not, well you must support it. Once the clutch cover is off, fish out ALL the pieces if it's broken.

Post by **scheckaet** » 11:59 am May 08 2012

could be what julien described if you have an E model.
Never heard of this for the H model.
I bet your kips actuator is broken.

eroknroll · Post by **eroknroll** » 12:59 pm May 08 2012

Exhaust and the cover of the kips actuator, the gear and the valves are smooth like butter but the actuator claw moves up and down off the gear and can spin in a complete circle. So my actuator pin is broken like you suggest? Come the think of it a am pretty sure it was that way when I pulled that cover off when I tore it down to do the top end. I didnt have to do the left hand thread nut on the claw gear beacause of that when I tore it all down. I feel so stupid. I guess I will start looking for threads on how to fix this mess.

But on the bright side of things I thought the power was pretty good, so I guess it is bound to get better once I have the kips up and running.

Post by **Julien D** » 01:02 pm May 08 2012

It's a really easy fix. Pull the inner clutch cover and take a look at that rod where it's sticking down inside the cover. You will see where the pin thing is bolted to the end of the rod. That's what you need to replace. Also, be sure you find the broken piece while you're in there, otherwise it can cause some pretty serious damage.

Since we mention "claw" I'm sure it's an H series. So yeah, disregard my previous comment. I guess broken subvalves are still a possibility on an H, but you don't hear of it very often.

eroknroll · Post by **eroknroll** » 01:07 pm May 08 2012

It sounds liked I can do this whithout pulling the motor then? Yeah its a 95.

Post by **scheckaet** » 01:07 pm May 08 2012

eroknroll wrote:Exhaust and the cover of the kips actuator, the gear and the valves are smooth like butter but the actuator claw moves up and down off the gear and can spin in a complete circle. So my actuator pin is broken like you suggest? Come the think of it a am pretty sure it was that way when I pulled that cover off when I tore it down to do the top end. I didnt have to do the left hand thread nut on the claw gear beacause of that when I tore it all down. I feel so stupid. I guess I will start looking for threads on how to fix this mess.

But on the bright side of things I thought the power was pretty good, so I guess it is bound to get better once I have the kips up and running.

sounds like the holding pin is gone too. In the middle of the shaft there should be a little screw, remove it and there should be a pin there to keep the shaft from going up and down.
if it can spin 360, then it suggest the actuator is busted.

Dang i need to make a video on this, so sick and tired of repeating the same thing over and over

eroknroll · Post by **eroknroll** » 02:54 pm May 08 2012

So I pulled off the inner clutch cover, this is what I found. The shaft was there, including the end of the shaft the bolts on with two small hex bolts. The very tip Of the governor lever was slightly worn. I did notice a groove in the shaft, no pin, also no corresponding bolt on the outside collar. I believe this is what made it possible to spin the shaft 36o degrees from what you said. I played with the governor lever sitting in the governor as if it were put together. I could spin the shaft some putting tension in the spring, but with more spinning the lever would pop out of the slot.

eroknroll · Post by **eroknroll** » 03:04 pm May 08 2012

If I flip the governor 180 degrees the lever works just fine and does not slip out of the groove. I remember that spring tension and then releasing if I continued to sling the lever before I tore it apart. I am thinking the previous owner had the governor spring unit installed backwards. Does this make sense?

Post by **scheckaet** » 03:25 pm May 08 2012

eroknroll wrote:If I flip the governor 180 degrees the lever works just fine and does not slip out of the groove. I remember that spring tension and then releasing if I continued to sling the lever before I tore it apart. I am thinking the previous owner had the governor spring unit installed backwards. Does this make sense?

There is no spring for the part I'm talking about.
The only spring involve in the kips is on the left side of the cylinder: 92081-1527 SPRING,CLUTCH PLATE (weird name for it)
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26 ... inder(2_2)

Are you talking about: LEVER-COMP,GOVERNOR part #13236-1260?
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26 ... er(s)(1_2)
I don't think it can be rotated 180.
When you pull it out make sure it look exactly like the pic.

The pin I was talking about earlier is 92043-1256 PIN,3X12.8.

eroknroll · Post by **eroknroll** » 03:49 pm May 08 2012

On the same page as far as the parts you referenced.

Sorry that last post was a little confusing. The spring I was referring to was the one on the governor unit itself, the white plastic gear, spring governor part that gets sandwiched in between the inner clutch cover and the crankcase.

What I am supposing is that this part was installed backwards. I say this because if I put the governor lever into the slot of the governor and then twist the governor shaft as if the parts where in the engine. The governor lever slips out of the slot on the governor if the shaft is turned. If I rotate the governor 180 degrees, the lever stays securely in the governor slot when rotated.

Before I put it all back together If I rotated the rod I could feel a spring compress and then release. Then I could lift the rod, spin it almost all the way around, push the rod back down to where it was supposed to be and repeat.

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