KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

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Clifford
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by Clifford »

Just replaced the water pump seal on a 96 KDX 200, when I pulled the right side engine cover I discovered the pin that holds the plastic gear on the KIPS governer was snapped off. I clean out all the bits that I could find and replaced the pin. Now upon reassembly the KIPS advancer shaft alignment seems off. At rest the claw gear alignment pin is pointed toward the rear of the bike. Does one have to apply some rotational force (over coming the spring on the governer) to get the shaft and claw gear to line up correctly? Also, what would cause the pin on the govener to sheer off? I do have a service manual and supported the advancer shaft while undoing the LHT nut that holds the claw gear.
I have read so many horror stories about the pin on the shaft breaking off and taking out the primary gear and clutch that I don't want to go down that road. Am I being paranoid?
I am very new to dirtbikes.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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scheckaet
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by scheckaet »

"pin that holds the plastic gear on the KIPS governor"
can you be more precise? don't recall any plastic bits in the kips...
Clifford
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by Clifford »

The pin is part # 92043-1319 and the gear is part #59051-1189 from the parts fiche. They are part of the exhaust advancer governor inside the RH engine cover.

Thanks
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scheckaet
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by scheckaet »

1st time i've heard of anyone having issue with these parts.
Is there any bearing around that could be seized?
Clifford
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by Clifford »

There is a bearing that it rides in but the bearing checks out ok.

Maybe I am just "lucky" and this is a freak thing that broke.
I have had the bike for about 4 month and don't really know how well the previous owner maintained it.
My other question was about aligning the claw gear to the horizontal kips shaft. The manual state to align the hole in the claw with the notched teeth on the horizontal gear. I'm curious how much force should it take to accomplish this?
Thanks
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scheckaet
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by scheckaet »

Clifford wrote:There is a bearing that it rides in but the bearing checks out ok.
if that piece broke then something is not right...

The manual state to align the hole in the claw with the notched teeth on the horizontal gear. I'm curious how much force should it take to accomplish this?
NONE since you removed the left treaded nut...
if you can't move manually the horizontal gear (with the claw removed) by hand, your kips is gummed up and need a good thoro cleaning.
Support the shaft when removing and putting the claw back on or you'll break the kips actuator.
Thanks
Clifford
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by Clifford »

I agree 100% that the piece broke for a reason and something is not right. That's what I am trying to figure out.

I also am not sure that I am stating things correctly. The horizontal shaft will rotate easily by hand with the claw gear removed. However, I will pull the top end and make sure everything gets inspected, cleaned and parts replaced as needed. The issue currently is that I can put the claw gear back on the advancer shaft (that goes into the right side engine cover) but that the claw is facing towards the rear of the bike and not meshing with the gears on the horizontal shaft. Does one rotate the advancer shaft clockwise so that the claw gear will mesh with the horizontal shaft at the proper alignment or is it possible that the advancer shaft been twisted in someway?
Thanks for the help. I would like to be riding my bike and not grenading it while out on the trails.
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Varmint
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Re: KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by Varmint »

How about some pics?
In my garage
2003 KDX200
2003 KX85
2005 CRF230F
2009 300 XC-W(e)
My KDX
Clifford
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by Clifford »

Let see if this works.

Image
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gsa102
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by gsa102 »

My 96 has the pin holding the plastic gear on the governor, so I am familiar with what you are talking about. I think it is the pin on the end of the kips shaft that breaks stuff if it comes off. And you break that off by twisting the nut on the claw gear without holding the shaft with a wrench.

If everything is properly assembled, looking at the right side, you turn the kips gear all the way counter-clockwise, and the claw will line up correctly with no force required. There is a mark on the claw and a painted tooth on the gear that should match up to check your assembly. The side cover can be tricky to get on the whole way, to get all the gears to mesh and shafts to line up.

I suspect that your governor is not properly assembled, or the actuator rod guide pin is not in the slot on the governor.
This is my rifle, this is my gun, the YZ to go fast, the KDX is for fun!

96 KDX 200, 09 YZ 250
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scheckaet
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by scheckaet »

yeah, if you can't rotate the shaft (NO force required) to mesh the claw (assuming it's in the right position) with the gear, the actuator is not installed correctly. You'll need to open her up to see what's up. My guess is the actuator is not in the proper slot and might be damaged. I'd order a new one for piece of mind they cost less than 5 bux IIRC. very cheap insurance.
post more pics.
Clifford
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by Clifford »

Here are a few more pics. I am not sure if the actuator rod guide pin is bent or not. Should it be perfectly perpendicular to the shaft? Also it appears that the guide pin was not riding in the slot as it has a large bevel at the tip. I have ordered a new guide pin which I hope will solve my problems.
Image
Image

Last pic: Proper assembly? When the guide pin is in the slot as seen in this picture the claw gear is pointed as shown in my previous post. What gives???
Image
Thanks for the help guys.
ChrisGSXR
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by ChrisGSXR »

I suspect my problem is related to this also.

Basically, the claw will slot into the gear, but if I rotate the KIPS from the left side shaft, it operates with some tension from the actuator rod, but upon returning to the closed position, the claw "pings" off the gear and stays several mm away from it and won't re-engage.

The dot on the claw sits a tooth or 2 higher than the white painted tooth that it should be on.

Is this due to the actuator not seated correctly under the engine cover?

All 3 valves are opening and closing together as they should ;)

EDIT: In fact, thinking about it, if its sitting out of alignment then I think the chances are that the rod has been bent by trying to undo it in the normal direction by a previous owner :hmm: (I knew about the LH thread)

Time to pull the engine cover....
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diymirage
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Re: KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by diymirage »

when you say it "pings off" do you mean it pop up and instead of meshing with the teeth it hoovers over it ?

if you look at the "sleeve" the actuator rod sits in you will see a small Philips head screw
behind that screw is a small hardened steel rod
this rod sits in a groove in the actuator rod and it is the only thing that keep it in place
if that little rod is missing the claw gear will not properly mesh and just pop out...I would start by checking there
but be carefull, those rods are TINY and like to disappear if you drop them
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
ChrisGSXR
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by ChrisGSXR »

Well I've found the main problem.....Its bent!

Image

I will check for the rod too mate, thanks! Yes thats exactly what I mean, it pops up and just sits there ;)
Last edited by ChrisGSXR on 12:41 pm Nov 30 2013, edited 1 time in total.
ChrisGSXR
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by ChrisGSXR »

EDITED.
Last edited by ChrisGSXR on 12:41 pm Nov 30 2013, edited 1 time in total.
ChrisGSXR
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by ChrisGSXR »

Im not sure I know exactly where you mean regarding the small pin....at which end?
My rod looks like this, there is a small hole at the claw end under the sleeve with nothing in it
Image

EDIT:I know what you mean now, and sure enough the screw wasn't there, neither was the pin. I've just ordered them from Kawi so should get them next week :)
I've also "tweaked" the pin that slots into the governor and its all straight now. I also mocked up the exact position with it being locked in place via the hole and the groove (where the pin will go) and the claw now sits perfectly on the gear and aligns as it should (not 2 teeth up) :grin:
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diymirage
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Re: KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by diymirage »

lol, shoulda read the whole post before I went through the trouble of doing this

Image

the pin and screw go on the other side of the red circle but it sounds like you got her all figured out
if she runs anything like mine you'll have to work to keep the front end done in the first 3 gears now :lol:



(on a side note, KDX2oo, this is exactly why juliend likes keeping these old posts around http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=14977 )
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
ChrisGSXR
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KIPS Advancer shaft alignment?

Post by ChrisGSXR »

Hopefully fixing this will make it run better :)
It makes sense, with the valve closed it pulls initially but then goes flat where I'm assuming the power should come in a bit harder. Better put that carb needle clip back to where it was then ;)

I can see how the pin can be broken so easily, being so small and having a left hand thread!! Fingers crossed.....
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