Dreaded Clutch Issue

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bart
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Dreaded Clutch Issue

Post by bart »

I got that dreaded clutch issue with a 96 kdx 200 I recently bought. When the bike is off, it won't roll in gear with the clutch in. When the bike is running, it does OK. The clutch is definitely dragging all the time though. The bike rolls a lot easier in 6th gear with the bike off and clutch on. What does this mean?

Funny thing is that the clutch was working just fine on a ride before I did a bunch of work: changed gear oil, new 'tusk' clutch cable, levers, new tires, plus new chain and sprocket. Then I went for a ride and quickly noticed the problem. I already tried adjusting all freeplay out of the lever.

The previous owner had the bike filled really low with ATF. Apparently because he just changed it (although starting to doubt this). So I topped it off and it rode fine. I used regular gear oil 10w30 for the oil change when I was doing all that maintenance. Took it for a ride and noticed the problem pretty quick. After the ride we changed it out for ATF, it only took only about .5L for the window to fill?? and the clutch was still dragging. However I haven't started it since changing back to ATF...

Given the number of factors here, which scenario is most likely?

The clutch plates started sticking all of a sudden... The new throttle cable/lever is dragging the clutch... The gear oil is causing the dragging...

I'll have to do some tests and inspection. Thanks for reading and advice/guidance is appreciated.
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Julien D
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Post by Julien D »

Well, the first part means absolutely nothing. Even a brand new bike on the show room floor will resist rolling when in gear, engine off, and clutch lever pulled. A wet clutch needs centrifigul force to spin the oil out from between the plates and steels in order to release. Without the clutch spinning, even taking the pressure off the clutch stack will not release them as there is no force to spin out the oil that has the stack stuck together. Sounds like your clutch is working perferctly fine, to me.


As far as dragging when running, it could have been the different oil. Different oils will certainly perform differently in a wet clutch, so oil selection is quite important. ATF type F is perfectly fine.

"That dreaded clutch issue", made me laugh a little. :partyman:
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Post by rbates9 »

I have found my bike to be VERY fussy as to what oil it gets. Some drag, some shift hard, and some just won't last more than a ride or two.

Try riding it with the new oil and see if it gets any better with a little time on it.
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Post by bart »

Thanks for the opinions. Like I said, the bike used to easily roll in gear with the clutch on. Of course it's going to roll the easiest in neutral, but right now it isn't rolling at all in gear without trying to crank over and start. I do agree with riding it with the new oil. Too bad I live in the city, I'll have to wait until the weekend to go riding.
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Post by Edward Anstett »

I have an 04 with very little use[300+ miles]. I can't even roll the bike, while not running, with it in gear and the clutch lever pulled in. The tire drags. I can kick start it in gear thought, but no doubt I feel drag as the bike moves forward slightly when kicking the starter over.

I recently put Mobil 1 10-40w motorcycle specific in transmision[full quart]

Perhaps I'll try the ATF and see what happens at recommended 700ml.

Very curious to know if you fixed your problem,cause it sounds just like mine.
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Post by bart »

Just took it out yesterday for a good ride. The ATF helped... Now when I go to roll it (bike off, in gear, clutch in) it will grab and be hard to push for half a wheel turn, THEN it will free up and roll moderately easy. Going to drain the fluid and inspect the clutch. Like I said, when I first bought it a couple weeks ago, it rolled great with the clutch in... but it was pretty low on ATF gear oil when I took it out for a test ride after buying it.
I recently put Mobil 1 10-40w motorcycle specific in transmision[full quart]
Full quart?? I found a great diagnosis guide for 2 strokes that has this same problem and the possible culprits. Here, scroll down to Clutch not disengaging properly

http://www.cyclepedia.com/two-stroke-mo ... ing-guide/
Last edited by bart on 02:08 am Mar 07 2012, edited 2 times in total.
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Julien D
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Post by Julien D »

This comes up time and time again on every motorcycle forum out there, from street to dirt, doesn't matter. If it's a wet clutch the princple is the same. If you find it easier to push the bike in gear with the clutch pulled when using a particular type of oil, that's fine. Use that oil if you like. Put simply, a wet clutch is not designed to function when the engine is not running. This engine off bike in gear test is irrelevant. All that matters is how the clutch is working when you are riding the bike. Pay no attention to how it works when the engine is off, it just doesn't matter, other than suspecting worn friction plates if the bike DOES roll easily in gear with the clutch lever pulled.
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Post by SS109 »

>|<>QBB<
juliend wrote:This comes up time and time again on every motorcycle forum out there, from street to dirt, doesn't matter. If it's a wet clutch the princple is the same. If you find it easier to push the bike in gear with the clutch pulled when using a particular type of oil, that's fine. Use that oil if you like. Put simply, a wet clutch is not designed to function when the engine is not running. This engine off bike in gear test is irrelevant. All that matters is how the clutch is working when you are riding the bike. Pay no attention to how it works when the engine is off, it just doesn't matter, other than suspecting worn friction plates if the bike DOES roll easily in gear with the clutch lever pulled.
The wise one has spoken! :prayer:

I agree 100%!
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bart
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Post by bart »

>|<>QBB<
juliend wrote:This comes up time and time again on every motorcycle forum out there, from street to dirt, doesn't matter. If it's a wet clutch the princple is the same. If you find it easier to push the bike in gear with the clutch pulled when using a particular type of oil, that's fine. Use that oil if you like. Put simply, a wet clutch is not designed to function when the engine is not running. This engine off bike in gear test is irrelevant. All that matters is how the clutch is working when you are riding the bike. Pay no attention to how it works when the engine is off, it just doesn't matter, other than suspecting worn friction plates if the bike DOES roll easily in gear with the clutch lever pulled.
Thanks, and you're right. I forgot to underline that my clutch was grabbing while I was riding in gear, making super low speed single track a little difficult. This problem did seem to go away for me with changing back to ATF. I also upped the idle a little bit. Runs like a top now.
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Post by Julien D »

Now that is something to be concerned about. Several things could cause it, including oil. Mine is happier on ATF as well. Don't be afraid to try a few different oils, but do try to stick to motorcycle specfic trans oils, gear oil, or ATF.

Glad you got it sorted out!
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Post by Edward Anstett »

Dumped the Mobile 1/10-40w Synthetic. It looked nasty, with shiny specs. Clutch plate reminents? Clutch had choppy feel, not good. I had read that some clutch plate manufactures recommend NOT using synthetic oils.

I put in ATF-F up to fill mark. Much better. No hurky jerky clutch.

After an initial sticking point, the bike will now roll in gear with resistance while not running. I understand that is not the test for wet clutch, but everything feels moe better.

I am going to dump and inspect. If clean....forge forward... If not.....???.
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Post by Julien D »

ATF has a lot of cleaning agents, so the first couple changes are likely to come out quite dirty. Luckily type-f is cheap, so change it frequently for the first few rides and see if it cleans up.
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Post by Edward Anstett »

Switching fluids did not help me. I ended up changing my clutch plates /springs and wallah!! All my clutch issues went away.

The bike will roll in gear, clutch lever pulled, when not running. Granted there is some resistance,[as all wet clutches have] but nothing like the tire dragging antics prior to the install.

Oh yeah....I was told that I did not have to remove the 22mm bolt on my clutch to install new plates. You do.Removing the bolts that secure the clutch springs does Not allow access to plates on the H.
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Post by bart »

This is great news. I just ordered a new clutch to install after going for another ride and confirming the clutch is engaging abnormally.

>|<>QBB<
Edward Anstett wrote:Switching fluids did not help me. I ended up changing my clutch plates /springs and wallah!! All my clutch issues went away.

The bike will roll in gear, clutch lever pulled, when not running. Granted there is some resistance,[as all wet clutches have] but nothing like the tire dragging antics prior to the install.

Oh yeah....I was told that I did not have to remove the 22mm bolt on my clutch to install new plates. You do.Removing the bolts that secure the clutch springs does Not allow access to plates on the H.
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Post by KarlP »

Oh yeah....I was told that I did not have to remove the 22mm bolt on my clutch to install new plates. You do.Removing the bolts that secure the clutch springs does Not allow access to plates on the H.
H? As in '95 and newer?

Very strange. The 22 mm nut (not bolt) holds the clutch basket. Loosen and remove the bolts that hold the clutch springs and the whole clutch pack slides right out of the basket.
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Post by Julien D »

>|<>QBB<
Edward Anstett wrote:
Oh yeah....I was told that I did not have to remove the 22mm bolt on my clutch to install new plates. You do.Removing the bolts that secure the clutch springs does Not allow access to plates on the H.
You did something wrong? Remove the spring retainers and the inner hub with the plates slides out. You do not need to remove the basket to change the clutch pack.
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Post by Edward Anstett »

Removed 4- 10mm "bolts" that secure the clutch spring holder in place. Remove spring holder/remove clutch springs. Now you have the clutch hub [which is secured by the 22mm NUT/washer]. This hub encapsulates and sandwiches the driven/drive/spring washer/seat and the pressure plate. THis "sandwich" is held in the clutch basket by the 22mm nut/washer. Once the 22mm nut/washer is removed, the whole assembly [clutch hub/drive/driven plates/spring washer/seat/pressure plate] slides out of the clutch basket.

I have seen numerous dirt bike clutch removal videos on youtube, and they are in fact as described by KarlP and Juliend!!But my 2004 seems different. The hub/driven/drive plates/pressure plate are all held in the clutch basket by the 22mm nut/washer. My sons 2008 KLX140l has same configuation.

PS I sent carb out to RB Designs....can't wait to try.
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Post by Julien D »

mkay... as you wish.

Congrats on getting it going better, and also on the choice to RB.
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Post by bart »

Can I remove the basket through just the clutch inspection cover? I'll be doing the job this sunday with the old man.
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Post by Slick_Nick »

Yes. To get the nut off without the engine spinning, put a SOFT ALUMINUM washer between the teeth on the clutch basket and the engine output shaft. The washer will wedge and crush, so the teeth don't get damaged.
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