200# guys Shock settings?

[Indawoods]

For those guys that weigh around 200#'s...

what are your compression and rebound settings on your shock?

What kind of terrain do you ride also?

Thanks in advance!

[dave04kdx]

I weight 210 in full gear. I have the rebound and compression set one click in (slower) from the mean, (middle setting). I ride in everything from loose sand to loose rocks to washes full of good sized rocks. This setting gives me best results without stopping during a ride to change the clickers.

[KarlP]

Indawoods-
I'm not 200, but around 190 with gear. After much playing I have the least objectionable setting to be 12 clicks out on compression and 7 clicks out on rebound for my shock. I'm running 4" of sag. These settings are for going as fast as I can on single track that is very twisty and generally full of roots, cause thats what I have been working on. I'm still not entirely satisfied with the way the susension is working. I've got .38 XR400 springs in front and I actually dropped the fork tubes below the top of the triple clamp by about 3/16 ". I run 4 clicks out on the fork with 7.5 wt Silkolene.
If I change the clickers just one or two clicks either way on the shock I can get the shock to be either really harsh or I start to get the back end unstable and unpredictable.
Most of this riding is done while on the seat. There is generally not enough room between corners to get up off the seat, and the "overgrowth" tends to take my goggles off.
I can average 14 mph with these settings. I can't for the life of me seem to break that speed

[fuzzy]

Dang, your fast, but your suspenders need revalved!

[KDXGarage]

Sorry to be off-topic, but KarlP, any particular reason you went with 7.5 weight instead of 5 weight oil? I am always trying to learn from others experience is why I ask.

Nice to see another Alabama person on here.

[KarlP]

Jason-
On the 7.5 wght oil...
I went to see this old guy locally about some of those super heavy duty inner tubes and he asked what I was using and I told him "what ever was in there"
He gave me this stuff that seemed quite thick, but cost $12.00/quart. I tried it and it was very nice and plush. When I felt like I had worn it out I couldn't bear to go see the fella because it usually takes an hour or two to deal with the guy. I tried Silkolene at 10 wght and it seemed too stiff;I had to run the clicker at 12 clicks out and it still seemed harsh. With 5 wght it seemed to blow through the first few inches of travel too quick, even with the clicker set at 2 out. I made some other changes like a lower oil level(4") and shorter preload spacer and mixed 10wght and 5 wght 50/50 for 7.5 wght and I guess it's O.K.
In my opinion, the suspension on the KDX is it's weakest point. I put a pipe on mine and did some other stuff. It was unecessary, the suspension holds it back, I think.
By the way, I'm in Mobile. Got some nice stuff down here if you are ever in the area

Fuzzy-
I've looked and read and looked at revalving. I don't know. If I am still within the range of useful adjustment I guess I don't know what a revalve would do except put fresh oil in the shock. I'd like to change the way the shock acts over the small stuff. It seems O.K. on the big hits.

Karl

[KDXGarage]

I know what you mean on people that take an hour of stories to buy a plug.

The fork oil level will mostly come into play in the last portion of travel, so if it is the small bumps that are worrying you, then don't worry about the oil level to fix that.

I am ALMOST into TN, as I live north of Huntsville. I was in Gulf Shores in May. The rebuilding is coming right along!

What year model is the bike? How long has it been since the fluid was changed? If it has been a long time since the fluid was changed, it will lose some of its damping characteristics. A revalve is actually not the same thing as just getting the fluid changed. This is the way I see it. An oil change is "just an oil change". A rebuild is an oil change with replacement of worn parts and a revalve is an oil change with adjustments to the internal valving. If the shock has been recently rebuilt or is low mileage, it wouldn't need a rebuild while being revalved.

What is your free sag measurement on the shock?

[KarlP]

I'll get the free sag measurement this evening.
It is an '02 model, and the shock was serviced about 10 months ago.

I understand there is some fine riding in N. Alabama. Farthest north I have ridden is at Clanton. There's an Enduro for you.......

[jafo]

Wel since I just tried to reset mine for the MX track for tomorrow I recorded my settings for the woods.

Compression - 11 clicks out from tight. Meaning clockwise as tight or bottomed out.

rebound - I don't know, what ever it was from the factory. smart hugh?

I'm just learning all this stuff. What does what and when and where to adjust. I realy have'nt experienced to bad ah rebounding. I guess alittle but I just shrugged it off and kept going. I need to go out with that in mind and try to experience "bad" rebounding. Other than that the bike actually handles exellent. I have'nt had a front wash out in quite some time and have'nt ever washed the rear out that I can remember. It's alittle hard on the rock section so I guess the compreaaion should be adjusted alittle softer, but I don't like to soft either.

Jon.

[jafo]

I just read the section on the rear shock. So if I understand this correctly, rebounding, basicaly what your looking for is how fast the rear tire gets back to the ground after a bump, rock or root, right?

An compression is how fast and hard the rear bounces up into you as$ after hitting such bump, rock or root, right?

Please correct any of this if wrong.........please.

Jon.

[KDXGarage]

I just read the section on the rear shock. So if I understand this correctly, rebounding, basicaly what your looking for is how fast the rear tire gets back to the ground after a bump, rock or root, right?

An compression is how fast and hard the rear bounces up into you as$ after hitting such bump, rock or root, right?

Please correct any of this if wrong.........please.

Jon.

Rebound is the spring(s) expanding. Compression is the spring(s) compressing. If a wheel, swingarm, fork tube, etc. is atteched somehow, then so be it. The compression adjusters and rebound adjusters are there to slow down the flow of oil inside the suspension unit. Set it to your liking and whatever keeps the wheels on the ground and giving you the ability to turn (up front) or keep the tire hooked up and going (rear).

[fuzzy]

Fuzzy-
I've looked and read and looked at revalving. I don't know. If I am still within the range of useful adjustment I guess I don't know what a revalve would do except put fresh oil in the shock. I'd like to change the way the shock acts over the small stuff. It seems O.K. on the big hits.

If you can't go any faster and your susp is limiting you then you have already answered this question. You are out of your range of useful adjustment. The KDX susp is horribly unbalanced stock. The shock is good, but the forks suck. KX forks, or a full revalve w/ aftermarket rebound kit(only recently available) are the best answer. However, a straight revalve will work much better than what you have. You are right...The stock susp is the bike's greatest weakness by far. It is impossable to use all the stock motor w/ the stock susp...No matter what you 'click.' Power adders are a waste of money on a bike w/ stock susp unless all you're gonna ride is fields...Then you might as well be on a 500, or some old bike that costs nothin, but has balls.

[KarlP]

We kind of came way off Indawoods original question, didn't we?

I'm running 12 clicks out on compression and 7 clicks out on rebound with the shock and 4 clicks out on compression for the fork. No rebound clicker for the fork.

Jason-
Free sag was measured at 2 1/8". Just for clarity, this is the difference between two measurements. The first is taken when the rear wheel is off the ground and the rear suspension is fully extended. I measure between the axle center and a mark on the side cover straight up from the axle. The second measure is when the wheel is on the ground, suspension compressed under bikes weight only. Difference is free sag.
Race sag was measured at 3 7/8". This is the difference between the measurement taken above when the wheel is off the ground to amount of "sag" with bike and rider compressing suspension.

[cicone]

Take this for what it's worth...very little.

You know I ride a '90 200. I weigh in at 193(on a good day)and my riding gear consists of jeans, t shirt, tennis shoes, leather garden gloves and a helmet---I'm a throw back to the mid 70's. I don't know what good suspension feels like. I do know, after my 25+ year layoff, that this bike makes more than twice the power of my mid 70's TS185 and it's handling/suspension is light years ahead. As a matter of fact, my wife asked after my second outing or so if I was starting to "get it back". I laughed and told her that I was doing things in the woods that would have resulted in certain death on my old bike! It was simply night and day.

Back to the question---keep in mind that I have done zero suspension work since purchasing this bike some 2 years ago---I hear you guys, laughing and sighing out there.....For all I know, the suspension has never been touched. It could be bone stock--fluid and all. Well.....I went to Fredette's site and looked at his suggested settings---one for slow and one for fast. It seemed logical to set everything at the mid point of the range and adjust from there. As it turned out, every setting on the bike was completely backed out and as soft as could be made---probably the reason it wanted to flip so easily under acceleration! Took her out to the woods and, with full knowledge, made the cardinal mistake of suspension tuning----fired her up and went busting through a huge clay pit. I had one of the worst cases of Buckwheatitis ever. The damn thing threatened to throw me off like a wild bronco. Couldn't get the brakes on quick enough! After riding back to the truck slowwwwwly, I started easing up on the settings. Right now they are as such---forks out 14 clicks, rebound out 16 and compression out 13. About as good as I could set it given the above. Also note that the sag was set correctly prior to testing.

Riding conditions are sugar sand, mud, water crossings, clay, whoops, some roots and fallen logs and did I mention whoops, tons of whoops. Most of the riding here is slow single track---second and third gear most of the time with stock gearing.

Now that I've embarrassed myself beyond repair, I should start on the total rebuild process so I'll be ready to ride in the winter. That's best time to ride here, in my opinion. You just can't beat thrashing around in 30-40 degree weather. Need to get hold of Jason and see if he's interested in a little suspension work!!!

I bow my head in shame. Please forgive me. I'm not worthy. I've let down this group and my bike. Where's the beer!

[KDXGarage]

KarlP, no need to worry about strictly staying on topic around here. Topics evolve and grow here just as conversation changes in real life.

Free sag is defined as the distance the bike compresses under its own weight. For example, as you list it, yours would be 1 3/4" or 44.45mm. From what I have read, that number should be in the 15mm - 25mm range, as a good starting point. Are you standing or sitting when taking the static/race sag measurement?

cicone: Buckweahtitis.

That sounds like very little rebound damping you have there, sir. Is it not springy at 16 out?

As always, PM or e-mail me anytime I can be of service.

Thanks!

[KarlP]

Jason-
Can you check that again?
Free sag was measured at 2 1/8, race sag at 3 7/8.
Am I missing something, here?
I'll measure both again this evening.

I see where Cicone is coming from....
Years ago I was happy enough to have a pair of springs going from under the seat to the ends of the swingarm. Once I started fooling with it.......

[KDXGarage]

Team Green suggest 100mm sag on 1995 and newer KDX's. 3 7/8" is 98.something mm, so that would be correct. Free sag is the distance with the bike up on a workstand minus the distance under its own weight.

When you check both again, be sure to be standing when someone checks the race sag. Otherwise, you might sit too far wforward one measurement, too far back the next, etc. Standing gives a more consistant measurement over multiple measurings.


referring to cicone's comments - A little education can be a dangerous thing. Riding someone else's bike can do that to you, too.

[KarlP]

You know, Cicones settings are right close to the "standard" settings offered in the little owners manual.
I re-measured and stand by my measurements, give or take a 1/16".

Me and some boys from up the street went for a ride this Sunday morning. I'm on my "KDX 220 Trail Bike" and there were two CRF450's and a KTM 540 and a KX250. The KX250 guy and I walked away from those other three.
There is a lot to be said for a small two stroke in the tights. I don't know what people need with 146 hp in the woods.

Back to suspension: I'm considering a revalve. What concerns me is that I'll spend a couple three hundred dollars and not make an actuall improvement but it will be better, dammit, know what I mean? If all shocks could stand for a revalveing out of the factory, why don't they come out properly done in the first place? If it is rider specific how is the riders needs communicated to the suspension shop? I could just see telling them "Well, when you hit a root you can feel it, and I don't like that."

Now for something entirely different......
I bought my wife a KX100 and got it Saturday. What a hoot!. That thing RIPS! She's gonna break her neck! I bet if I spent a little time on it I could be faster on it in the tights than my KDX. It has better suspension, too

[KDXGarage]

HA HA HA HA! Quit bumming off your wife. Get on your own bike. I bet the KX100 is a lot of fun!

Are you saying that the bike squats 2 1/8" under its own weight? It would not make sense that if it sagged 2 1/8" under its own weight, that you sitting on top and adding 190 pounds would only squich it down another 1 3/4". Somehow I am not understanding this.

By the way, Clanton is not the enduro for me. I am too weak for that one. But seriously, the only one I have ever rideen was in MS back in 2003 in August. It was low 90's in heat and humidity, which was a test enough for me.

$300 for a revalve?? I gotta start charging more. JUST kidding.

Somewhere, someone has the stock shock valving and loves it. If you gave him 100 revalves, he would still love the stock valving. Everyone else needs to adjust accordingly. They try to build it for the average rider, and there are a few different ways to do that, with different theories and build methods to meet a rider's needs.

[KarlP]

Yeah I guess that is what I am saying, and now it doesn't make any sense to me either. Here we go measuring again. This time I'll write them down on a card and bring them to work.

Was the enduro in MS at Ouvette ?(sp) If so, that was a hot one. Steamy out there.

I'll send you my shock. I just gotta figure out what I want it to do.......