KDX for the kid?

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4Rider
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KDX for the kid?

Post by 4Rider »

Yep, first time to post on this site, and I'm looking for some info. I did do some searchs and did read through a lot of the archives before posting this thread. First, some qualifying background info:

We live in SoCal. We ride in the desert a lot (Ocotillo Wells, Jawbone, Ridgecrest etc). We also ride around the Mammoth/Bishop/Lone Pine region, and take the occasional trip to Moab and other places in Utah. Basically, we ride everything from wide open desert to single track in the trees. I am looking to move my 12-year old up from his TTR-125L. He has been riding for about 5 years, starting on an XR50, then through an XR70, XR80, TTR125 and now on the L. He is not a racer, and probably will never have any interest in racing. He rides aggressively, and has outgrown the TTR's suspension. He is currently 5'5", 130# and based on his older brother will probably grow a lot in the next couple of years (the 14-year old is 6'3 with size 14 flippers). Now no one can flame me for not giving enough info.

My questions are:

What is the seat height on a broken-in KDX200/220?
Any 5'5" riders have comments on the seat height and difficulty getting a foot on the ground?
Any comments from shorter riders on starting difficulty?
At what weight would I have to start considering suspension upgrades (I'm on a first name basis with the precision concepts folks)
Anyone have experience riding the KDX 200 in Ocotillo-like areas?
How do the KDX's do in the whoops and on moderate (not big) jumps?
Are there any specific model years that have "issues" that I should be aware of?
Is the KDX 200 truly like a 4-stroke in the torque and power band?
Are there any problems getting parts, both OEM and performance items, for the 200/220?

Anyone in SoCal have a KDX 200/220 for sale?

I'll be interested in any comments you have to share.

Thanks in advance from a newbie to this forum
'02 KDX 220, '06 KTM 525 EXC Dualsport (CA Plated) '00 KTM 640 Adventure R (for sale), '04 KTM 400 EXC, '96 Honda XR400R Dualsport (CA Plated), Were not lost, we're right here......
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Post by skipro3 »

Let me be the first to welcome you 4Rider......Welcome!!!

Man, you jump right in with the questions, don't you?!
It's great to hear of a dad taking the time to spend with the family.
I'll try and answer your questions, at least the ones I think I have some input on:
1. I don't know, I put a tall seat foam kit on my bike and KX125 front forks. But, I do know you can lower the KDX. Replacing the dogbones (Those things way down low on the rear shock shaped liked, yes, dogbones will lower the bike. There's a few sources for them including eBay. Then you can lower the front by raising the forks in the triple clamp to keep things balanced.
2. I'm pretty sure you would need to lower the bike for someone of that stature. At 5'10"', it's not a streach, but I'm not flat footed to the ground either.
3. No Comment
4. Suspension upgrades are mostly based on riding skill. The rear suspension is quite adaquate if serviced regularly. The forks can have stiffer springs added, a heavier weight oil and more of it too to provide more resistance.
5. I've ridden Nevada open desert on mine. With the countershaft dropped one tooth to a 12 from a 13, I still can go over 65mph.
6. All things in moderation, but I've found my KDX really does well in whoops. I don't do jumps other than water bars.
7. The modern KDX is anyone from '95 to present. Basicly only the graphics have changed. The KDX220 has a piston issue. Seems the skirts like to fly apart on the rare one out there. It's cheap insureance to stick an aftermarket piston in there. The 200's don't seem to have anything wrong with them. Both need every bearing re greased since the factory was very stingy with the stuff.
8. With the right mods, flywheel weight, VForce3 reeds, RB modified carb, 12 tooth CS sprocket, the kdx is quite the little tractor.
9. I've not had any problems finding what I want. It's the same bike since 1995; over 10 years now.
10. No, but I watch eBay and just picked up a 2002 KX250 for $900. Keep watching and you can get lucky if you do eBay.

Good Luck helping your boys out there!
Jerry
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Post by fuzzy »

Also, the 89-94 gen KDX is stll a great bike, and sits a little lower. I'd get a 95-up if you can, but lowering will be a necessety. My 93 is lowered via the dog bones for my 5'6" girlfriend. She still can't flat foot the ground(not that you should be able to), but I think She could w/ the proper rear spring.
'91 KDX 200 Project $300 KDX
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Post by KDXGarage »

Welcome to the site!

There are plenty of OEM and aftermarket parts around for KDX's.

Like skipro3 said, 1995 and newer models are pretty much the same.

You should ask your suspension tuner friends about getting it set up properly for hiw weight.
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Post by Dax10 »

I am a 15 year old, about 5 foot 6 and 132 pounds. I ride an 04 kdx 220 and love it. The only height/weight modification on my bike is that i removed the stock rear spring and replaced it with a 4.6 kg spring. i bought the spring used from the fredette website for around half price and it works perfect for my weight. i didn't change the dogbones, considered it but i don't think i really need it because I can touch with both feet. For starting difficulty it was a little hard to ride as it was a big step up from my ttr 125L and i dropped it a few times, but it doesn't take long to get used to and is a great bike. i ride just about all trails, many tight windy trails as well as some fast open ones and it works great in both. As it relating to a four stroke, i think it is very similar, you can lug around in the woods at very low rpms, with plenty of low end torque for whenever you want it just like a four stroke. I have never ridden a kdx 200 and dont know about how much torque that has but my 220 has plenty of it. I think the kdx is a perfect bike for your son.
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Good replies

Post by 4Rider »

Thanks for the quick replies.

For Skipro3- Thanks for the comments. My whole family rides and it is well worth the time investiment to me! It's been a kick first teaching them to ride then watching them progress to the point that they will soon be better-stronger-faster than the old guy! The boys are just getting old/mature enough to take over some of the maintenance which I am really looking forward to!

Fuzzy: You don't happen to know what your girlfriend's inseam is by chance? I'm thinking it'll be a stretch for the boy to reach even with the suspension lowered some.

Jason: My suspension tuner friends are telling me to get him a CRF250X and lower it down. Other than the X costing about $5800 with tax, needing at least $500 in basic parts (alloy bar, handguards, skidpan upgrade, airfilter etc) and $400 in lowering parts, having questionable reliability with way high-dollar rebuild costs the CRF seems about perfect. They do have trick suspension and the magic starting button, but with 4 of us riding I would be stretching to plunk down $7,000 for a bike that he may outgrow in three years or so.

Dax10- Again, thanks for the comments. Nice to hear from someone about his size and closer in age. How tall were you when you first got the KDX? Did you miss your TTR when you first moved up?

Again to all, thanks for the replies. One last question if anybody has an answer: Tell me if I have this right- The KDX 200 is a little faster with a little better top end, while the 220 has fatter low-end torque and not as much top end, right?

Well, one more question for any California gurus out there. Is the 2003 KDX220 green sticker or red sticker (Just found a dealer that has a left-over '03 that they really want to move!)

We are headed to Mammoth for a couple of weeks at the end of the month, and I'd like to find him a new ride by then. He still has his TTR so I don't really have to do anything stupid
'02 KDX 220, '06 KTM 525 EXC Dualsport (CA Plated) '00 KTM 640 Adventure R (for sale), '04 KTM 400 EXC, '96 Honda XR400R Dualsport (CA Plated), Were not lost, we're right here......
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Post by fuzzy »

I see you ride all 4-strokes. Let the KDX be your first 2T. :mrgreen:

You could be out the door on a KDX, get the suspention professionally lowered(including fork internals), resprung, revalved, install a steering stabiliser, and do some motor mods for the price of the 250X out the door. The reliability/rebuild longevety of the KDX WILL be better than that of the racing 4 stroke. You can count on that.

I'll try and get my girlfriends inseam. Tough task! :mrgreen: Gonna go chase her around w/ the tape right now...
'91 KDX 200 Project $300 KDX
'95 KDX 200 Project $600 KDX
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Post by KDXGarage »

Though he could later get the CRF250X suspension UN-lowered to fit him, it would be your billfold to let you know whether to go straight to a $7,000 bike from a TT-R125. I am eager to hear what kind of car he will get in 2 years if he is getting a $7,000 bike now. :grin:

Allow me to elaborate on my suspension comments. Most everyone is of the opinion that on the 1995 and newer KDX's, the stock forks are sprung for a 135 pound rider, and the shock is sprung for a 180 pound rider. As such, he would need a softer shock spring for it to be set up correctly. The stock spring rate is a 5.0 Kg/mm rate. From my experience in working on KDX suspension, I would suggest a 4.6 rate, as it would be better suited for his weight. I would also suggest that you get a 4.6 rate spring and THEN worry about any revalving and/or lowering. If that does not make sense, please ask me any questions you might have.

The 200 is more mid-high power and the 220 is more low-mid power. You are correct.

I don't know what your budget is, or if you are looking for new or used, but yuo can get a great condition KDX200/220R for around $2,500 in most places. Since they haven't changed much in the last 11 years, just get one that is in the best condition.
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Post by skipro3 »

Go with the KDX in either flavor; 200 or 220. I have a 220 and it's much more friendly as a play bike; not requiring quite as much clutch work to stay up in the rpms as a 200.

The cut-off year for green sticker is 2002, which is why I just bought a 2002 KX250 off eBay. Next, I'm looking for a 2002 KTM 300EXC. I'll never get rid of the KDX, but I also will (probably) never get a red stickered anything if I'm going to stay in California.

Most important: Listen to what Jason has to say about suspension. He's the resident expert on KDX suspension. (Probably lots of other suspensions too). If you have troubles setting a KDX up suspension-wise, just give him a shout, day or night, he won't care; even if it's 2 am Alabama time!!! :lol: Seriously though, he does know his stuff on shocks and forks. (Did you check out his avitar? He's a funny guy!)

****EDIT****

I want to add: The KDX would make a great Mom's bike when she's ready to move up too. But I'm betting once Junior gets it, he won't want to give it up.

The Honda 250 is a lot of bike for someone that size and muscle maturity to manage. Yes, the suspension is awesome, I've ridden a couple. But it sure can get a rider in trouble quick and even good riders get in trouble. When he outgrows the stock KDX set-up, the sky is the limit in regards to hopping the green bike up. My first year on the enduro scene last year taught me that my bike is just as competitive as the Hondas or KTMs.

Also, the exotic 4 stroke of today is so prone to failures that the parts market can't keep up. Break a Honda valve train component and it could be a whole season before he's back on the trail. Break a 2 stroke top end, and it's only until next weekend before your back up and riding.
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Re: KDX for the kid?

Post by skipro3 »

4Rider wrote: Now no one can flame me for not giving enough info.
We won't flame you for that, but someone might for owning punkins and BMW's!!!! :mrgreen:
Jerry

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Post by 4Rider »

Nice to find a friendly site that doesn't look down on new members.

Fuzzy- Yeah, we all have 4-strokes now but I just sold a YZ250 and have had other smokers in the past. I generally look for used bikes as I don't mind working on them and the money saved goes back into upgrades. You mentioned a steering stabilizer. What are the opinions on the KDX needing a stabilizer? As they are touted as being very nimble with fairly upright geometry, I assume they are a little unstable at higher speeds. Is this a must have for the desert or only a nice to have? (I have stabilizers on other bikes so I know what they can do to improve things)

Hold the tape behind the roses and you might have better luck. If you were an old married guy you would just go find her levi's and read the label.

Jason- As for the budget, I'd like to find someone who would pay me to haul away the ex-husbands bike to make space in her garage. As I am already in for 5 bikes, who knows how many sets of riding gear, a toyhauler and a truck to pull it all, I guess I'll spend what ever is necessary. Cheap is good up to a point..........

You hit the nail right on the head regarding the $7,000 CRFX. I don't have that much in my KTM Adventure. As for his car, I have several old land rovers sitting around the yard. He's looking at 67 screaming horsepower in a 40-year old tank straight from South Africa. It will run forever, and that's how long it will take him to get anywhere :cool:

I'm sure I'll be talking to you about suspension mods before too long.

Skipro3- Sounds like the 220 is probably the best way to go with the bottomend power. I have heard that some of the enduro 2-strokes retained the green sticker rating on the '03 models as the manufacturers did not change the VINs until '04. There is a new '03 220 sitting in a shop down here, but I am not at all interested in a red-sticker bike.

Good luck on finding a clean pre-03 300 EXC! I gave up looking for one and bought my wife a 400 EXC. It's been very good so far. Fat power band, plenty of torque and killer suspension.

We will be in Mammoth from the 18th through the 28th riding the forest roads east of 395. Let me know if you want to come over the hill and down the valley for a day or two of riding. It's nothing like Tahoe, but what is?

EDIT:

Just caught your last edit. "Mom" is on a 400 EXC set up for her by precision concepts (springs, valving, stabilizer etc) and isn't likely to let anyone else get near it. If the kid doesn't like the KDX I'll probably keep it for a playbike for myself. Sometimes the 640 is just too big to be much fun.

And yes, I have little brand loyalty. I've had lots of Hondas, Huskys as a kid, Blue, Yellow, White (old yamaha) and orange dirt bikes and several red BMWs. I have never had a Kawasaki. No reason, just never had one before!
'02 KDX 220, '06 KTM 525 EXC Dualsport (CA Plated) '00 KTM 640 Adventure R (for sale), '04 KTM 400 EXC, '96 Honda XR400R Dualsport (CA Plated), Were not lost, we're right here......
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Post by John Cena »

Check out this 2001 kdx 220 could use new plastics, new chain and sprockets and some new handle grips, but for under 800 I think it's a deal. 22 hours left.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-KAW ... otohosting
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Post by Dax10 »

i was about 5 foot 5 when i first got my kdx and once i rode my kdx, i didnt miss my ttr at all. i would also go with a 220 as it is a little easier to ride as ski said because you can ride it in low rpms. good luck
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Post by skipro3 »

WoW! The little woman rides a 400EXC?!? :prayer:

You dog!!!! :supz:

My wife rides a Kawasaki Voyager XII............on the back. :lol:
When we were dating, I got her a Yamaha GT80 as a camp bike. After the boys (2) came along, she was thrilled to have a day to herself when I took them out riding, so she never persued riding after that.

I've never ridden Mammoth but have ski'd there several times. You mention forest roads. Is there any single track in the area?

The primary differences between the 220 and 200, besides 20 cc's obviously are:
1. Porting on the 220 is much much milder.
2. The 220 comes stock with an o-ring chain.
3. The 220 carb is 33mm and the 200 is 35mm.
4. Graphics

I recommend that if you are buying a bike off eBay, it be close enough that shipping isn't involved. That way, you can view the bike before giving that much cash away. The shipping costs are steep from what I've been able to tell. I got my 220 off eBay from a guy in L.A area (Compton) He owns a business making airplane parts. He got the bike along with 3 other old high school chums and spent 5 days in Colorado on it each year for 3 years. After that, they missed a year so he listed it. I got it for $1800. Not bad for a bike with 15 total riding days on it.

I missed out on a brand new, dealer showroom, 2002 KTM 300EXC from the east coast by being outbid. I think it went for under $4K. :mad:

I'll keep looking though.
Jerry

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Post by 4Rider »

Well, the "little woman" is 5'12" tall, plays ice hockey with the knuckleheads in the senior division, rowed as the "stroke" on the UCLA women's eights crew team, and basically can kick my butt at most things athletic. Fortunately she makes more money than I do so I can afford all the stuff, such as her EXC. On the down side, she doesn't do housework or cook. You know what that means- we eat out a lot and the house looks like a tornado passed through most days. Thank god for microwave ovens. As far as I'm concerned, the good waaay outweighs the bad......... :prayer:

As far as riding in the Mammoth area: There are literally hundreds of miles of forest roads open to green sticker bikes and ATVs. In May a friend and I rode all-day for 5 days and never saw another bike or ATV, and only a very few 4-wheel drives. Most of the roads are dirt/gravel typical forest service roads. You can ride all the way from Bishop to Mono Lake and beyond without touching pavement. You can cross the valley and climb up the White Mountains to the area of the Bristlecone forest as well. I have not found a lot of single track. There are quite a few "jeep trails" that are challenging, and some single track scattered here and there, but no big network that I have found. I have heard that the locals know where quite a bit of single track is hidden, but guard the knowledge religiously. The Inyo Forest USFS map is very good, and cheap. The Mammoth Visitors Center and the Interagency Visitor's center both sell the Inyo Forest Map, and will mail it to you on request.

The hot ticket in all of the Owens Valley is a dual-sport bike (hence the KTM 640 and XR400). Death Valley is awesome on a dualsport. Again, hundreds of miles of trails and miniscule numbers of riders. We ride in the valley many times a year, mostly in the late fall, winter and spring months due to the summer heat. Only the Mammoth area is bearable from June through mid-october. I posted a long ride report regarding the Owens Valley on the Advrider site. Here is a link to that page:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthre ... ays+valley

I put in lots of photos so you can get a feel for what the riding is like. Not too challenging for the most part, but very scenic.
'02 KDX 220, '06 KTM 525 EXC Dualsport (CA Plated) '00 KTM 640 Adventure R (for sale), '04 KTM 400 EXC, '96 Honda XR400R Dualsport (CA Plated), Were not lost, we're right here......
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Post by KDXer »

Breath taking photos. What else can I say but awesome. Very well done.
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Post by 4Rider »

Thanks Kay Dee Exer. If you ever make it out to this side of the world I'd be glad to take you on a tour of the area!

While I am posting: Any idea what the fuel range is for the stock KDX? I realize it all depends on jetting, riding style etc, but just trying to get some idea. Are there desert tanks available? We often do fairly long rides.
'02 KDX 220, '06 KTM 525 EXC Dualsport (CA Plated) '00 KTM 640 Adventure R (for sale), '04 KTM 400 EXC, '96 Honda XR400R Dualsport (CA Plated), Were not lost, we're right here......
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Post by skipro3 »

Hey Trev, that drive I was mentioning from my place to Las Vegas goes right through the areas 4Rider is talking about, including Death Valley. BTW, what's your name 4Rider? (or am I having a senior moment and missed it?)

Range on a KDX? Jetted correctly, I get maybe 75 miles from a tank; say 25 to 30 mpg. It's got almost a 3 gallon tank stock, so not much sense getting an aftermarket one. Carvr, he rides big and just stashes gas cans on the way in for the day's ride.

Thanks for the link to the other site too. I'll check it out more tomorrow.

The bad? You don't have someone yelling at you to pick up your socks all the time and you call that bad? :lol: She sounds like a peach; better keep her!!!
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Post by KDXer »

Sounds like a plan. ROAD TRIP !!! :supz:
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Post by KDXGarage »

Dax10, thanks for sharing your experience.

4Rider: It sounds like he will driving the "The Gods Must Be Crazy" replica Land Rover. :grin: That will be good for him!

It sounds like the KDX is a great fit budget-wise.

400EXC?! WOW! :shock:

Those are some lovely places you were riding! Thanks for pointing out the link. I think you guys had a lovely time.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
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