From 2 bikes to 1..parts swapping

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dan46n2
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Post by dan46n2 »

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rbates9 wrote:>|<>QBB<
dan46n2 wrote:Ahh, VT- I know all about their registration policies- my wife will be sending in some KDX paperwork to them soon :)
Last I heard you don't even need a VT address to do it. One hang up may be getting the VIN verified. They want to do it for cars but I'm not sure about toys.
Correct, out of state address is ok. Bikes under 300cc don't require VIN verification. :supz:
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dan46n2
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Post by dan46n2 »

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gregp wrote:....There is probably a 45 pilot and a 150 main in the '95, and a 48 pilot and a 165 main in the 2004.
So I've got the carbs apart...Here's the specs:
Both have 160 mains, 48 Pilots, and both have the needle R1174K (also says AFK02)...

My only experience with jetting a carb is from my SV650 so with that for what it's worth...
With the jetting on the 95 and the mods, the bike had decent pull down low and once you crept into powervalve territory the bike just wanted to take off- a surge of power came on at partial throttle. Just on paper, I would have guessed the 2004 to be very rich if the 95 is running the same jetting...On the other side, if the 2004 didn't feel so low on power when I rode it, I would have guessed the 95 to be jetted pretty lean (and the gas can I got with the bike said he was running it at 40:1). Since I tend to err more on the side of longevity, I was running the 04 at 32:1.

Off to the jetting FAQ on TT to see if I should start picking up a few other jets...
Any suggestions for jetting is appreciated.

FMF Gnarly Woods pipe, Pro Circuit 304 rear silencer (quieter than the powercore I could use), going to run no airbox lid (or at least remove snorkel), plan to add the FRP Torque Ring, and I ride at elevations from 500ASL to 2000ASL between 45F and 100F for temps.
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rbates9
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Post by rbates9 »

About the VT reg. I looked into it briefly and there was something about under so many cc's they don't do any more. I cant remember what it was but let me know how you make out. :hmm:

If your looking for jetting tips it might be worth looking at http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1156 Some people seem to find it worth while. :wink:
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dan46n2
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Post by dan46n2 »

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rbates9 wrote:If your looking for jetting tips it might be worth looking at http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1156 Some people seem to find it worth while. :wink:
Ah, thanks! :supz:
I figure I'll just pick up a few other jet sizes and use what I have as a starting point and just adjust from there using that thread for guidelines.
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Post by gregp »

I believe that a 45 Pilot and a 150 main are the recommended *starting points* for the mods you have..... I ended up going way leaner (38 pilot, 142 main) in an attempt to get rid of a bad top end misfire, but then went back to the 45/150 after I discovered that a bad source coil was giving me all kinds of grief.
2004 Dual Sported KDX200
1999 Ninja 250 (Daughter's)
1996 DR 650 (stock, mostly street use)
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dan46n2
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Post by dan46n2 »

^ Thanks, gregp.
I was going to pick up a 45 pilot and a few other mains to try out and use the jetting your carb post that rbates linked above.
I managed to jet my SV650 on my own, this shouldn't be too hard... My biggest issue is going to be that 1) I won't be able to ride it until next weekend and 2) there's nowhere (other than the road) where I can get it up to WOT for any length of time...
But I figure I'll just play around and see what works.
Should be interesting!

Any experience with the FRP torque ring? For $10, I don't see any harm in trying it out...
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Post by rbates9 »

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dan46n2 wrote:^ Any experience with the FRP torque ring? For $10, I don't see any harm in trying it out...
My bike came with one and I didn't notice until I had the jug off. When I put everything back together I left it out but installed the RB'd carb, and VForce reeds so I can't say how much it amounts to. I have been thinking about putting it back in just to see.

If you get it you will probably be upset to see that it is nothing more than a piece of pipe about 1/4 inch long.
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Post by scheckaet »

not enough room to go wot to 6th, no problem get it to wot in 5, should be the same, it's all about putting load on the engine.
maybe apply a bit of rear brake too?
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Post by dan46n2 »

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scheckaet wrote:not enough room to go wot to 6th, no problem get it to wot in 5, should be the same, it's all about putting load on the engine.
maybe apply a bit of rear brake too?
I'll be lucky if I can get to WOT in 3rd for any longer than a few seconds...
Guess I might have to take a spin up the road.
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Post by gregp »

After you remove the carb a couple of times, you will find that you can rejet in about 10 minutes on these bikes. You do not have to remove the shock, or the airbox, or anything for that matter (unlike some other bikes I have worked on. My old DRZ400 was best handled by unbolting the top of the subframe, and rocking the whole thing back - Ugh!)
KDX's are very easy to work on!
2004 Dual Sported KDX200
1999 Ninja 250 (Daughter's)
1996 DR 650 (stock, mostly street use)
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dan46n2
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Post by dan46n2 »

Yes, it's definitely easy to pull the carb on these.


I have the FMF turbine core2 and the procircuit 304 silencer (pics on the first page) and I like the procircuit just because the pipe turns down at the back and helps minimize the spooge on the fender. However, the FMF seems to be the more popular choice.
I want to add a db snorkel later when I get it plated but I'm not sure that the 304 will fit due to the round canister (vs the typical oval like the FMF).
Which one would YOU keep? FMF turbine core 2 or procircuit 304?
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Post by gregp »

FYI - The Db Snorkel will puke spooge all over the rear caliper anyway (I had two of them), so I would keep the FMF for the better fitment. The Db Snorkel will fit the PC silencer as well, though.
2004 Dual Sported KDX200
1999 Ninja 250 (Daughter's)
1996 DR 650 (stock, mostly street use)
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Post by dan46n2 »

^ Thanks, gregp. Good to know.
I think I remember reading about the db snorkel puke thing.... I got to thinking about the FMF vs PC and the FMF at least has more room for more packing material, so I'm hoping that might mean it could possibly be quieter than the 304... no idea.

The 304 I have looks to be an older style/design as it's just a round tube, whereas the newer ones (on the pc website anyway) look to be oval just like the FMF.

For sake of fitment and better chance of obtaining replacement parts, I think I'm just going to go with the FMF... I'll be riding it this weekend with the 304 though since it's all ready to go.

Also ordered some IMS superstock pegs today and a Ricochet skid plate, along with some jets: 158, 155, 152, 150 mains and 45, and 42 pilot jets.
The jets should give me enough choices that I won't have an excuse to take the time to jet the bike properly.
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Post by gregp »

My '04 200 (with similar mods) currently has the 45/150 combo, but it is pretty rich on the bottom. If I were you, I would start with the 42/150, and move the needle clip to the 2nd groove from the top. Getting the needle out can be tough. I used a double nutted 8mm socket head cap screw because I did not have the required 6mm (?) socket....
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1999 Ninja 250 (Daughter's)
1996 DR 650 (stock, mostly street use)
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Post by dan46n2 »

I know most bikes are generally jetted pretty rich out of the box... But the settings I found in the carb (48/160) seem to be REALLY rich compared to everything I've been reading about their choice after rejetting...

Even the justkdx page lists:
Stock -Run the stock R1174K jet needle in the second from the top clip position, 45 pilot jet, 155 main jet and fine-tune the pilot circuit using the air screw.

With a performance pipe/expansion chamber, the air box lid removed and the stock or a performance silencer run a 42/45 pilot, R1174K jet needle in the mid clip position, a 152/155 main jet fine tune the pilot circuit using the air screw.
I always understood rejetting boils down to this: Giving the bike more air/flow requires more fuel, thus going bigger on jets.
From what I'm reading, KDX's are SO rich out the box that you're actually better off adding more air and you're still going with smaller jets...
Am I understanding that correctly?
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Post by gregp »

Yes, that is correct. The pipe and reed cage also effect the flow through the ports, and this has an effect on jetting as well. Rest assured that in your area (I am in MA), the 42/150 combo will still be safely on the rich side.
2004 Dual Sported KDX200
1999 Ninja 250 (Daughter's)
1996 DR 650 (stock, mostly street use)
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Post by dan46n2 »

So I got some time to ride the 04 with the Gnarly pipe and RAD valve this weekend. Definitely more pep than stock, but definitely NOT the "blur my vision" powerband feel that the 95 had... This is using the same jetting on the 04 that I had on the 95, however it was known going into it that the same jetting doesn't mean it's right just because the bolt-ons were the same.
New jets arrive this week, so I'll be testing it this weekend.

Pulled the forks apart last night between the 2.
95 had heavier springs and thicker oil, the 04's fork oil ran out like water.
Going to pick up some 7.5wt today to use with the heavier springs, and putting some 5wt back into the 95 with the stock fork springs.
Not going to get into changing the shimstack right now just because I already have plans for a KX front end in the future. Just need the KDX front end to get me by til winter.

Will be swapping shocks between the 2 later this week.
UPS is dropping off a few things on Tuesday so I'll be busy this week.
New Trailtech kickstand, Ricochet skid plate, IMS pegs...

My wallet (and the wife) will be happy once I only have 1 KDX and I've gotten my main list of necessary mods done to it.
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Post by dan46n2 »

Got the forks put back together last night. Was a fairly easy job.
Got my Zeta speedo drive canceller spacer put on and added a front lift strap under the lower triple
Got my SS front brake line installed, but stripped out one of the screws that holds the m/c cover on so I'll be off to the hardware store today for a replacement (hex head if they have it!).
Changed the oil and put in a magnetic drain plug.
Started working on the IMS Superstock pegs and got one of the springs modified to fit, although it looks as if the pegs will need to have a talk with my bench grinder so that they sit flat and perpendicular to the frame. As is, they are slightly angled up and back...
Also got the FMF silencer swapped over (put the PC 304 on the 95)...

Tonight will be shock swap, finish up the pegs, and put the bicycle speedo on if I have time.

This thread has way too much text and not enough pictures- wtf?
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Post by dan46n2 »

I also think I figured out why the 95 has such an on/off powerband ...
Found a post on NewEnglandDirtBikes from Greg (is this the same gregp from here?) stating about a detent ball and spring in the KIPS...
If you remove the detent ball and spring located under the 8mm bolt on the left side of the motor, the valve will open much sooner, and make the engine much more lively. If you have an "H" series KDX, I recommend that you try this. It only takes a minute or two. It works great in higher speed/traction conditions.
The bolt should have 2 copper washers on it. If you remove one of the washers (preloading the detent ball more), the valve will stay closed longer, which is great for muddy, slippery conditions.
Just be sure to put the bolt back in before you test ride!

Yes, this is a KIPS thing. The bolt I am referring to is on the left side of the motor (as you are sitting on the bike). It is directly *under* the round, slotted KIPS cover. The 8mm bolt head faces straight down at the ground. It is easily identified by the two stacked copper washers under the bolt head. Remove this bolt (with an 8mm open end, or preferably a box wrench) and be very careful because the "bolt" is hollow, and there is a long spring sitting inside of it, with a small ball sitting on top of the spring. If you drop these parts, they are easily lost. Simply remove the ball, and the spring, and reinstall the bolt.
For re-installation, a small dab of grease on the ball will "glue" it to the top of the spring, making re-installation much easier.
The purpose of this device is to "lock" the power valve in the closed position, until there is enough force to drive the valve mechanism past the ball detent. This gives you the long low and mid pull, and a seamless pull into the top end power delivery. Removal of the ball and spring will allow the power valve to open much sooner, letting the engine drive into the top end power quite a bit quicker. You will still have good low end power, but the delivery will be much more abrupt.
I switch back and forth often, depending on conditions.
Checked the 04 and I see 2 copper washers there. Checked the 95 and there are no copper washers on the bolt, leading me to believe that the 95 has the ball and spring removed. I didn't remove yet to verify, but I'll be checking later to confirm and if so, I'll likely try this out on the 04...
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Post by gregp »

Yes, that is me. :-)
2004 Dual Sported KDX200
1999 Ninja 250 (Daughter's)
1996 DR 650 (stock, mostly street use)
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