difference between gnarly woods and gnarly desert
- parker72001
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difference between gnarly woods and gnarly desert
i was going to get a new pipe and i'm probably going to get the gnarly because i need more low end. i was just wondering what the difference is between the woods and the desert. i came to the conclusion that the desert has more top end power and the woods has more low end, if that's the case i need the woods, just wondering. One other thing, i was reading about bad pistons in the 220's, if you don't get the wiseco what can it screw up in your engine? i only have about 400 miles on my bike and was wondering if i need one yet, just curious.
Parker Woods, 20 years old,
'04 KDX 220R
'04 KDX 220R
- Colorado Mike
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Welcome Parker,
Since yours is a 220, you might want to go with the rev pipe since you already have good low-end grunt. That said, I have the woods pipe on my 220, and like it but it doesn't have much on the top. check my bike profile to see all that's done to it. I would really like to try a rev pipe to see the difference.
The piston question is hard to answer. What can happen? Anything ranging from nothing, to total engine destruction requiring replacement of the cases and cylinder. In light of that, I thought it was cheap insurance to replace the piston in mine with a Wiseco. I think I did that at 200 miles or so.If you do that, make sure you align the clips properly or you may blow your motor anyway. Pictures in the gallery illustrate this.
I highly recommend the first power mods to be a pipe and RB's carb mod on the 220. after that get a Delta Force3 reed cage. This all comes after getting your suspension working, like proper springs (XR) in the front , and replacing the factory pond scum in the forks with real oil.
Good Luck,
Since yours is a 220, you might want to go with the rev pipe since you already have good low-end grunt. That said, I have the woods pipe on my 220, and like it but it doesn't have much on the top. check my bike profile to see all that's done to it. I would really like to try a rev pipe to see the difference.
The piston question is hard to answer. What can happen? Anything ranging from nothing, to total engine destruction requiring replacement of the cases and cylinder. In light of that, I thought it was cheap insurance to replace the piston in mine with a Wiseco. I think I did that at 200 miles or so.If you do that, make sure you align the clips properly or you may blow your motor anyway. Pictures in the gallery illustrate this.
I highly recommend the first power mods to be a pipe and RB's carb mod on the 220. after that get a Delta Force3 reed cage. This all comes after getting your suspension working, like proper springs (XR) in the front , and replacing the factory pond scum in the forks with real oil.
Good Luck,
Mike
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'04 KDX220
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- Indawoods
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With a 220 you have all the lowend you should need. First look at getting that piston replaced and getting it jetted right before you go looking at pipes.
That piston exploding could completely destroy your motor.
That piston exploding could completely destroy your motor.
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
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I have a Gnarly woods on my 220 and I love it. You can lug it around like a 4 stroke and then wick it open and it's instantly on the pipe. I would however like to try a desert pipe to see the difference. With a 50 tooth sprocket and the woods pipe I can crack the throttle in 1st through 3rd at almost any speed and loft the front wheel. Great for crossing trees and wash outs
03 220R
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I have heard several OEM piston disentegration stories. To me, that would be the first thing I would do on a KDX220R (besides lubing the swingarm and linkage bearings). Ask about that if you haven't read up on it, already.
I see in another post that you know what Rocky Mountain MC is. If you do the work yourself, you are looking at roughly $150 for a piston kit, small end bearing, top end gasket kit and replacement coolant.
I see in another post that you know what Rocky Mountain MC is. If you do the work yourself, you are looking at roughly $150 for a piston kit, small end bearing, top end gasket kit and replacement coolant.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net.
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
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I have the Gnarley Desert Pipe on my 220R. I like it alot. It's got alittle more top end than before and it does'nt or seem to not have hurt the low end at all. Even if it did, you can always to a sproket swap.
I also changed out my piston for a Wiesco. It was the first thing I did. Just for piece of mind. The piston kit is cheaper than having to replace the cylinder if the piston blows.
Jon.
I also changed out my piston for a Wiesco. It was the first thing I did. Just for piece of mind. The piston kit is cheaper than having to replace the cylinder if the piston blows.
Jon.
- skipro3
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Your best power for least buck on the 220 is to jet that carb right. Was that mentioned already? They come rich from the dealer so know how to do this, buy some jets and needles then get to work. The bike will turn from mild to wild with little more than a few plugs for testing and some jetting.
BTW I have a 220 and run the woods pipe. I love it. I got a FATTY pipe from FMF and I prefer the WOODS pipe by far.
BTW I have a 220 and run the woods pipe. I love it. I got a FATTY pipe from FMF and I prefer the WOODS pipe by far.
Jerry
I'd rather be a smartass like carvr, than a dumbass like.... well, you fill in the blank!
I'd rather be a smartass like carvr, than a dumbass like.... well, you fill in the blank!
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I have an 01 220R, 12 tooth cs. I went with the desert pipe. Absolutely love it. More power across the board once jetted right. 2nd gear wheelies no prob. 3rd gear wheelies in powerband. I put pipe on after cs so I know for a fact it improved everywhere. My atv friends could not believe I could get that much performance from a single mod, but they are on 4-strokes. Oh yeah, did I mention throttle control, better have it on hills and in turns or else.
- canyncarvr
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A basic pipe primer:
The word or term 'gnarly' means absolutely nothing in regard to the pipe profile.
'Profile' is a term used to describe the effect the pipe has..low-end, upper-end, 'all over'..that sort of thing.
'Burly' in the FmF world is generally used to designate the guage of metal used in fabrication. A burly FmF pipe is made of thicker (18ga) metal than a non-burly (19ga) pipe.
Unless you want to substitute 'gnarly' for 'burly' because you got into a trademarked name litigation...
BTW...the word 'gold' doesn't mean anything in regard to performance profile, either.
So..if you are referring to the powerband your pipe best operates in, saying you have a 'gnarly' or a 'burly' or a 'gold' pipe means nada.
One more thing...FmF has in the past labeled their pipes in catalogs to further confuse the issue. They have mixed up the 'rev' and 'torque' names between the two KDXs (200/220) so that you would think the pipes have different effects on the two different models.
That's not so.
The pipe profiles work in the same way for both bikes. The -30 (the 'rev' pipe...the larger of the two..about 14" around at the largest part of the pipe) works on the upper end of things for both bikes, the -35 (the 'torque' pipe..the smaller of the two..about 11" around at the largest part of the pipe) works on the lower end of things for both bikes.
**edit**
Note the edited (correct) measurements in a later post in this thread..it's 14.5/12.5" respectively.
**edit**
The word or term 'gnarly' means absolutely nothing in regard to the pipe profile.
'Profile' is a term used to describe the effect the pipe has..low-end, upper-end, 'all over'..that sort of thing.
'Burly' in the FmF world is generally used to designate the guage of metal used in fabrication. A burly FmF pipe is made of thicker (18ga) metal than a non-burly (19ga) pipe.
Unless you want to substitute 'gnarly' for 'burly' because you got into a trademarked name litigation...
BTW...the word 'gold' doesn't mean anything in regard to performance profile, either.
So..if you are referring to the powerband your pipe best operates in, saying you have a 'gnarly' or a 'burly' or a 'gold' pipe means nada.
One more thing...FmF has in the past labeled their pipes in catalogs to further confuse the issue. They have mixed up the 'rev' and 'torque' names between the two KDXs (200/220) so that you would think the pipes have different effects on the two different models.
That's not so.
The pipe profiles work in the same way for both bikes. The -30 (the 'rev' pipe...the larger of the two..about 14" around at the largest part of the pipe) works on the upper end of things for both bikes, the -35 (the 'torque' pipe..the smaller of the two..about 11" around at the largest part of the pipe) works on the lower end of things for both bikes.
**edit**
Note the edited (correct) measurements in a later post in this thread..it's 14.5/12.5" respectively.
**edit**
Last edited by canyncarvr on 11:40 am Jul 26 2005, edited 2 times in total.
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- Indawoods
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I'll have to measure mine tonight but I think mine is around 11" and it's a REV K-30. But, Mine was one of the first ones off the assembly line so that may not mean a whole lot.
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"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- canyncarvr
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Yes, I am sure. The rev (-30) is the larger of the two.
Not only am I sure, but I am positive...indubitably, absolutely, irrevocably, unambiguiously, unconditionally, and exactly...... sure.
Now then...the 11/14" part is a recollection from having measured them a couple years back. Seeing as I never misremember anything (I say, I say...thass'a joke, son)...well, you get the point.
**edit**
Gee. That is incorrect!! Imagine that.
The rev -30 measures 14.5", the torque -35 measures 12.5".
Both measurements from pipes I own..actually measured with a measuring device!
I should have checked the figures first..posted later. My apologies.
...the rev is still bigger......
**edit**
The 'around' part is referring to the largest part of the chamber...where the diverging/converging cones meet.
Besides...consider the physics of the issue...which volume is going to be tuned to a lower frequency?? The smaller volume. So....the smaller volume (torque or -35) is in tune at a lower pulse freq (rpm) than the larger (rev or -30) volume.
No, it's not the same as a pipe organ (larger=lower).
In other words:
First pic...my bike with a rev -30 pipe. Look at the pipe bell in relation to the shroud.
Second pic...Ski's bike with a torque -35 pipe. Look at the same place. Lots more space, 'eh?
You're welcome to go to the gallery to see the larger pics...didn't want to take the space on the forum.
re: It measures 'this' but it's stamped 'that'.
Wouldn't be the first time FmF stamped a pipe wrong.
Not only am I sure, but I am positive...indubitably, absolutely, irrevocably, unambiguiously, unconditionally, and exactly...... sure.
Now then...the 11/14" part is a recollection from having measured them a couple years back. Seeing as I never misremember anything (I say, I say...thass'a joke, son)...well, you get the point.
**edit**
Gee. That is incorrect!! Imagine that.
The rev -30 measures 14.5", the torque -35 measures 12.5".
Both measurements from pipes I own..actually measured with a measuring device!
I should have checked the figures first..posted later. My apologies.
...the rev is still bigger......
**edit**
The 'around' part is referring to the largest part of the chamber...where the diverging/converging cones meet.
Besides...consider the physics of the issue...which volume is going to be tuned to a lower frequency?? The smaller volume. So....the smaller volume (torque or -35) is in tune at a lower pulse freq (rpm) than the larger (rev or -30) volume.
No, it's not the same as a pipe organ (larger=lower).
In other words:
Such was either misread, misunderstood....or just plain wrong.I have always read it's the other way around in the past.
First pic...my bike with a rev -30 pipe. Look at the pipe bell in relation to the shroud.
Second pic...Ski's bike with a torque -35 pipe. Look at the same place. Lots more space, 'eh?
You're welcome to go to the gallery to see the larger pics...didn't want to take the space on the forum.
re: It measures 'this' but it's stamped 'that'.
Wouldn't be the first time FmF stamped a pipe wrong.
Last edited by canyncarvr on 11:41 am Jul 26 2005, edited 3 times in total.
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- canyncarvr
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The rev -30 is used (based on rider posts) more often on the 220 than the torque -35 exactly for that reason....the 220 needs all the help on the top-end it can get.
If you're running the oem 33mm carb, that's a major rev throttle (in the sense of garote?). A 36mm (what you end up with with Mr. Black is done with it) will help the top-end of your bike out a good deal!
If you're running the oem 33mm carb, that's a major rev throttle (in the sense of garote?). A 36mm (what you end up with with Mr. Black is done with it) will help the top-end of your bike out a good deal!
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- skipro3
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FWIW, the photo of my bike with the -35 pipe on it CC posted has a e-guard on it, so the actual pipe is even smaller looking than that photo shows.
Also, with the RB modded AirStryker PWK carb I have, the -35 pipe seems to run closer to the -30 pipe. Meaning: the power band isn't as dramaticly noticed between the two pipes if the carb is swapped and tuned for correct jetting. My 220 seems to run hotter with the -35 pipe than a -30 pipe too; (with the stock 33mm carb) a consideration perhaps to some 220 owners. It was to me. Now that I have the RB modded carb, I don't have a -30 pipe around to check if that is still true today.
Finally, with any carb or pipe change, please be sure to confirm your jetting is still correct. I wouldn't want to see someone out there with a whole new problem.
Also, with the RB modded AirStryker PWK carb I have, the -35 pipe seems to run closer to the -30 pipe. Meaning: the power band isn't as dramaticly noticed between the two pipes if the carb is swapped and tuned for correct jetting. My 220 seems to run hotter with the -35 pipe than a -30 pipe too; (with the stock 33mm carb) a consideration perhaps to some 220 owners. It was to me. Now that I have the RB modded carb, I don't have a -30 pipe around to check if that is still true today.
Finally, with any carb or pipe change, please be sure to confirm your jetting is still correct. I wouldn't want to see someone out there with a whole new problem.
Jerry
I'd rather be a smartass like carvr, than a dumbass like.... well, you fill in the blank!
I'd rather be a smartass like carvr, than a dumbass like.... well, you fill in the blank!
- m0rie
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I wonder if this might be part of Colorado Mike's overheating issue?skipro3 wrote:My 220 seems to run hotter with the -35 pipe than a -30 pipe too
-Maurice
1989 KDX 200
2007 TTR-50E
2007 TTR-50E
- canyncarvr
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I found the jetting between the two pipes to be considerably different. If you're not setup right in the first place, who knows where you will be after changing stuff.
My point is, if you don't rejet with the pipe swap, you will be off. Don't know how many riders change pipes that often...I used to change mine regularly depending one where I was going riding. The air striker from RBD on the SSS (Second Sweet Spot) changed all that for me. I have no need to change back and forth anymore. The DF3 was an improvement I wasn't expecting, too (a change from the DF2 lo/lo I was using).
re: pipe guard
Mine has one, too (FRP), so they difference in size is relatively the same as with no guard.
My point is, if you don't rejet with the pipe swap, you will be off. Don't know how many riders change pipes that often...I used to change mine regularly depending one where I was going riding. The air striker from RBD on the SSS (Second Sweet Spot) changed all that for me. I have no need to change back and forth anymore. The DF3 was an improvement I wasn't expecting, too (a change from the DF2 lo/lo I was using).
Yup!!Ski3 wrote:Finally, with any carb or pipe change, please be sure to confirm your jetting is still correct. I wouldn't want to see someone out there with a whole new problem.
re: pipe guard
Mine has one, too (FRP), so they difference in size is relatively the same as with no guard.
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- parker72001
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- Colorado Mike
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m0rie wrote:I wonder if this might be part of Colorado Mike's overheating issue?skipro3 wrote:My 220 seems to run hotter with the -35 pipe than a -30 pipe too
-Maurice
This is the first I heard that the woods pipe makes the bike run hotter than the rev pipe. That's interesting. Might be a good experiment to put the stock pipe on and see how she runs. That pipe stinks though.
I rejetted richer today, went from a 145 to a 148 and raised the needle one notch. The temps were around 75-85° which is cooler than it has been. The bike still emptied the recovery bottle, and lost a little from the rads. It just didn't erupt into a full steam spewing frenzy this time.
Maybe I'll mount a lugage rack on the front and cary a couple of jugs up there, run a tube down to the rads. Might be the only KDX with a total loss cooling system. Oh wait, it's practically total loss now.
Mike
Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid.
'04 KDX220
Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid.
'04 KDX220
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Try the Motul Mike... 277 boiling! Sure beats 235!
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****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "