copper washers on nuts for cylinder head
-
- Member
- Posts: 136
- Joined: 08:40 pm Feb 14 2008
- Country:
- Location: Tacoma, WA
copper washers on nuts for cylinder head
Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and or Happy Holidays( that's me being politically correct) I have a 2000 KDX200 and I was wondering if there is supposed to be copper washers under the nuts holding the cylinder head on? I looked up the OEM fische for it and it shows none, but I think they should be on there IMO. What do you guys think?
Little Jeff
Little Jeff
Riding with your buddies and an adventure, riding with certain individuals is an ordeal.
- skythrasher
- Supporting Member I
- Posts: 423
- Joined: 06:24 pm May 16 2007
- Country:
- Location: NW Arkansas
Tryin to beat CC to the punch.
Just trying to beat CC to the punch with this post.
Why do you think there should be copper washers there?
Why do you think there should be copper washers there?
-
- Member
- Posts: 136
- Joined: 08:40 pm Feb 14 2008
- Country:
- Location: Tacoma, WA
- Julien D
- KDXRider.net
- Posts: 5858
- Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
- Country: USA
- Contact:
- canyncarvr
- Gold Member
- Posts: 6943
- Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
- Country: US
- Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
Re: Tryin to beat CC to the punch.
>|QBB<[/url]
I'm sure there's something about that meant to be pointy and prickly and barby..I mean...like whatever that has to do with anything the likes of which I've ever said, I don't know.
Please, may I direct your attention to your service manual..or, the lack thereof being painfully self-evident to especially yourself, refer to the following:
Notice the lack of any washing material, copper or otherwise, in the location subject to (meaning 'beneath' or 'under' in this instance) the indicated flanged head nut.
That the official above diagram shows only ONE such nut being used MAY mean the other six DO indeed have such washerment material.
..but I doubt it.
Cheers!
Whul....wusTHAT s'posed to mean?skythrasher wrote:Just trying to beat CC to the punch with this post.
I'm sure there's something about that meant to be pointy and prickly and barby..I mean...like whatever that has to do with anything the likes of which I've ever said, I don't know.
Please, may I direct your attention to your service manual..or, the lack thereof being painfully self-evident to especially yourself, refer to the following:
Notice the lack of any washing material, copper or otherwise, in the location subject to (meaning 'beneath' or 'under' in this instance) the indicated flanged head nut.
That the official above diagram shows only ONE such nut being used MAY mean the other six DO indeed have such washerment material.
..but I doubt it.
Cheers!
Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
bike profile: !clicky!
-
- Member
- Posts: 136
- Joined: 08:40 pm Feb 14 2008
- Country:
- Location: Tacoma, WA
- Mr. Wibbens
- KDXRider.net
- Posts: 4884
- Joined: 02:57 am Nov 07 2004
- Country:
- Location: Playing in the Poison Oak
- Contact:
my guess would be they are NOT needed
Warning! This member tends to use sarcasm as a regular form of communication. If a post seems offensive, before you panic and fly off the handle, re-read the post and imagine it being said with a sideways grin.
((Bike Profile))
((Pics))
FIVE OUT OF FOUR PEOPLE DONUT UNDERSTAND FRACTIONS
((Bike Profile))
((Pics))
FIVE OUT OF FOUR PEOPLE DONUT UNDERSTAND FRACTIONS
- canyncarvr
- Gold Member
- Posts: 6943
- Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
- Country: US
- Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
My guess: The superior performance of the KDX is due, in part, to the considerable weight savings had from not using head fastener washers.
That's pretty obvious, ain't it?
Right?
Or...........
Maybe KDXs don't need to have their heads off every three rides...so lack of such a washer ain't no big deal.
That works!
That's pretty obvious, ain't it?
Right?
Or...........
Maybe KDXs don't need to have their heads off every three rides...so lack of such a washer ain't no big deal.
That works!
Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
bike profile: !clicky!
-
- Member
- Posts: 136
- Joined: 08:40 pm Feb 14 2008
- Country:
- Location: Tacoma, WA
- fuzzy
- KDXRider.net
- Posts: 3437
- Joined: 01:29 pm Jun 18 2003
- Country:
- Location: Fredneck, MD
LMAO!My guess: The superior performance of the KDX is due, in part, to the considerable weight savings had from not using head fastener washers.
That's pretty obvious, ain't it?
Right?
I've seen em both ways. Depends on the type of nut used. None of my kart motors capable of 18,000 RPM use them....Use flanged nuts
'91 KDX 200 Project $300 KDX
'95 KDX 200 Project $600 KDX
'94 WR 250 Always a project
'95 KDX 200 Project $600 KDX
'94 WR 250 Always a project
- canyncarvr
- Gold Member
- Posts: 6943
- Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
- Country: US
- Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
..wasn't s'posed to be funny. I mean...facts is facts..........
Don't get me wrong. You can put washers on there if'n you wanna. Don't know that it would hurt anything. It's not like the copper washettes are going to compress with heat/cool and fail.
Well...maybe not.
If it was a 80ft/lb fastener, I'd use a washer. But..they're 18ft/lb or somesuch. Probably not enough to gall the aluminium.
Don't get me wrong. You can put washers on there if'n you wanna. Don't know that it would hurt anything. It's not like the copper washettes are going to compress with heat/cool and fail.
Well...maybe not.
If it was a 80ft/lb fastener, I'd use a washer. But..they're 18ft/lb or somesuch. Probably not enough to gall the aluminium.
Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
bike profile: !clicky!
- dave04kdx
- Supporting Member II
- Posts: 256
- Joined: 01:01 pm Nov 09 2004
- Country:
- Location: Casa Grande, Arizona
Malleable metal washers (usually copper) are used to compensate for machining imperfections. KDX's have no machining imperfections
Washers such as these are sometimes called "crush washers" and are found on most hydraulic fittings.
Washers such as these are sometimes called "crush washers" and are found on most hydraulic fittings.
At age 4 success is . . not peeing in your pants.
At age 12 success is . . having friends.
At age 16 success is having a drivers license.
At age 35 success is having money.
At age 50 success is . . having money.
At age 70 success is . . . having a drivers license.
At age 75 success is . having friends.
At age 80 success is . not peeing in your pants.
At age 12 success is . . having friends.
At age 16 success is having a drivers license.
At age 35 success is having money.
At age 50 success is . . having money.
At age 70 success is . . . having a drivers license.
At age 75 success is . having friends.
At age 80 success is . not peeing in your pants.
- Julien D
- KDXRider.net
- Posts: 5858
- Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
- Country: USA
- Contact:
Here's my take on it. All the bikes I have seen that have copper washers on the head have the dual rubber ring style head gasket. The head bolts fit in between the inner and outer rings, and there are water pathways there. Without the washers you could get water pushing up and out around the head bolts. Since the KDX uses a copper or aluminum crush style gasket, and there are no water pathways directly around the head bolts, the copper washers would not be necessary.
- canyncarvr
- Gold Member
- Posts: 6943
- Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
- Country: US
- Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
Crush washers generally have something to crush...like some sparkplugs have...or the copper gaskets used on the cylinder/pipe joint in the KDX. Are these storied head washers designed that way? I thought they were simply flat washers.
Curious...how is a copper washer going to provide an effective seal to the stud? If they were designed to crush in such a way..you would have a dickens of a time getting the head off.
...I don't have no money...and where the hell is my driver's license!!??
Curious...how is a copper washer going to provide an effective seal to the stud? If they were designed to crush in such a way..you would have a dickens of a time getting the head off.
...I don't have no money...and where the hell is my driver's license!!??
Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
bike profile: !clicky!
- dave04kdx
- Supporting Member II
- Posts: 256
- Joined: 01:01 pm Nov 09 2004
- Country:
- Location: Casa Grande, Arizona
The crush washers that I have used do a really good job of sealing. They actually mold around the mating parts and make a gasket of sorts. They are a one time deal. Once the nut of mating part is tightened on them and then removed they are not useable again.
At age 4 success is . . not peeing in your pants.
At age 12 success is . . having friends.
At age 16 success is having a drivers license.
At age 35 success is having money.
At age 50 success is . . having money.
At age 70 success is . . . having a drivers license.
At age 75 success is . having friends.
At age 80 success is . not peeing in your pants.
At age 12 success is . . having friends.
At age 16 success is having a drivers license.
At age 35 success is having money.
At age 50 success is . . having money.
At age 70 success is . . . having a drivers license.
At age 75 success is . having friends.
At age 80 success is . not peeing in your pants.
-
- Member
- Posts: 230
- Joined: 08:40 pm Dec 04 2006
- Country:
- Location: Chicoutimi, Canada
I would imagine they would seal the same way copper washer on banjo bolts seal.canyncarvr wrote:Crush washers generally have something to crush...like some sparkplugs have...or the copper gaskets used on the cylinder/pipe joint in the KDX. Are these storied head washers designed that way? I thought they were simply flat washers.
Curious...how is a copper washer going to provide an effective seal to the stud? If they were designed to crush in such a way..you would have a dickens of a time getting the head off.
...I don't have no money...and where the hell is my driver's license!!??
4 wheels move the body 2 wheels move the soul
Gallery!
Gallery!
- canyncarvr
- Gold Member
- Posts: 6943
- Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
- Country: US
- Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
But....washers (copper or not) on banjos are on the OUTside of everything to be sealed..providing 360º of seal on one axis and likewise a total seal on the other axis.
That's not so on a cylinder stud. There is an unsealed path THRU the washer (and NOT sealed) 'cuz of the stud.
Note that brake cylinders have bolts in 'em...not studs.
There's a bolt on the LH side of a Yamaha Warrior that has a copper washer on it..because the threaded hole the bolt threads into is OPEN to the crankcase. IF screwing something into/onto threads was a suitable sealer..they wouldn't bother with a copper washer on that bolt.
Never mind. It matters not a whit anyway. How many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin, anyway?
Who cares?
That's not so on a cylinder stud. There is an unsealed path THRU the washer (and NOT sealed) 'cuz of the stud.
Note that brake cylinders have bolts in 'em...not studs.
There's a bolt on the LH side of a Yamaha Warrior that has a copper washer on it..because the threaded hole the bolt threads into is OPEN to the crankcase. IF screwing something into/onto threads was a suitable sealer..they wouldn't bother with a copper washer on that bolt.
Never mind. It matters not a whit anyway. How many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin, anyway?
Who cares?
Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
bike profile: !clicky!
- Indawoods
- Creator and Founder
- Posts: 9951
- Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
- Country:
- Location: Midwest
Ya'll shut up now....
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
-
- Member
- Posts: 230
- Joined: 08:40 pm Dec 04 2006
- Country:
- Location: Chicoutimi, Canada
indeed CC but I wasn't disagreeing with you in the firts place.
4 wheels move the body 2 wheels move the soul
Gallery!
Gallery!
- fuzzy
- KDXRider.net
- Posts: 3437
- Joined: 01:29 pm Jun 18 2003
- Country:
- Location: Fredneck, MD