2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to do?

Discussion specific to the various air-cooled KDX models sold in the USA
Post Reply
nedrowjoe
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: 11:11 pm Oct 24 2016
Country: United States

2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to do?

Post by nedrowjoe »

I bought 2 rough 86 kdx200s to make 1 decent bike. Good news is that both kips systems are in excellent condition. Bad news is that I'm almost positive the jug that is a "b" that is still unsleeved looks to have the nikasil worn. Nothing I can really feel, but there is definitely no cross hatch marks. The sleeved "c" cylinder looks to need resurfacing, but has plenty of meat. Unfortunately I haven't found an efficient way of uploading pics. I have a brand new "b" pro x piston. When carefully set inside the cylinder without rings, the sleeved cylinder has a ton of clearance, I would assume close to 1 mm. the unsleeved cylinder is a way closer fit. I cannot afford to replate the unsleeved cylinder. So I am debating selling the spare kips, to fund the oversized piston I will need for the sleeved cylinder. Or should I have the sleeved cylinder worked and sell that for a couple hundred, and sell the kips to fund resleeving? Let's assume both cylinders need work, and I am trying to spend as little as possible. Opinions?
nedrowjoe
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: 11:11 pm Oct 24 2016
Country: United States

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by nedrowjoe »

The cool thing about the sleeved cylinder is that someone did a good job matching ports, also it has 2 holes drilled opposite each other with some sort of metal dowel welded in, almost looks to be to avoid the sleeve from rotating. Maybe all sleeves have this, not sure.
david
Member
Posts: 524
Joined: 08:30 pm Oct 10 2011
Country:
Location: Forney, TX

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by david »

Does the plated cylinder look to be in good condition (uniform color)? When the plating wears through to the base aluminum, you can see the color change. That, along with deep scratches and out of spec clearances are what tell you to replate. Put the pro-x piston in the plated cylinder and measure the skirt to cylinder clearance. If it's within spec, I would run that one the way it is. The plated cylinder will cool much better than the sleeved one.
'81 KDX 175
'90 KDX 200
'07 Vulcan 2000 Classic LT (totaled 4/25/15)
'82 Honda GL500 (sold)
'96 ZXi 1100 JetSki
'98 STX 1100 JetSki
nedrowjoe
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: 11:11 pm Oct 24 2016
Country: United States

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by nedrowjoe »

Will do, I have feeler guages at home. I was also told to place a ring inside the cylinder and measure ring gap. Now I just need to find the "spec" numbers. And there is some different colloration in the plated cylinder, dark almost black streaks, not gouges though, they are unnoticeable by touch. I am seriously considering cleaning it with green scotch brite and running it. I am slightly concerned that I see no crosshatchinf and that is what is supposed to help oil retention with the rings.
nedrowjoe
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: 11:11 pm Oct 24 2016
Country: United States

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by nedrowjoe »

Both bikes were running. The plated bike sounds as if it was running strong, but 1 of the magnets let loose on the flywheel. The guy I got it from convinced me it was a catastrophic crank failure. The crank looks great.
david
Member
Posts: 524
Joined: 08:30 pm Oct 10 2011
Country:
Location: Forney, TX

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by david »

The electrofusion cylinders don't have a cross hatch in them from what I've seen. If the specs are good, run it. The dark streaks you see are probably from blow-by, so it is probably due for a set of rings.
'81 KDX 175
'90 KDX 200
'07 Vulcan 2000 Classic LT (totaled 4/25/15)
'82 Honda GL500 (sold)
'96 ZXi 1100 JetSki
'98 STX 1100 JetSki
nedrowjoe
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: 11:11 pm Oct 24 2016
Country: United States

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by nedrowjoe »

Ok thanks, I've got the pro x "b" piston kit to go along with the cylinder that is marked "b". I'm just nervous about 30 year old electroplating. But that is my nature, to do more than I have to. Actually that is the main reason I'm back in the dirt, keeping 4 cylinders on my kz1000 in perfect synch was wearing on me. I'm happy to be back to air cooled, single cylinder 2stroker.
david
Member
Posts: 524
Joined: 08:30 pm Oct 10 2011
Country:
Location: Forney, TX

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by david »

Age is just a number. I just pulled the head on my '90 this weekend to replace the stripped KIPS valves. It was the first time the cylinder had ever been opened up on this bike. Still runs strong and will lift the front in 3rd.
'81 KDX 175
'90 KDX 200
'07 Vulcan 2000 Classic LT (totaled 4/25/15)
'82 Honda GL500 (sold)
'96 ZXi 1100 JetSki
'98 STX 1100 JetSki
nedrowjoe
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: 11:11 pm Oct 24 2016
Country: United States

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by nedrowjoe »

that is what I'm talking about. Truth be told I want to beat my quad and 4 stroke lover friends into the dirt with a frankenplastic, 30 year old beater, and I will. Do you have any ideas on spec for piston clearance in the cylinder and ring gap spec? I used to own a 91kdx200, that has a pretty good scratch in the cylinder and we piston slapped her, and she ran good for me until my dad sold it from under me.
david
Member
Posts: 524
Joined: 08:30 pm Oct 10 2011
Country:
Location: Forney, TX

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by david »

Sorry, don't have the book on your model.
'81 KDX 175
'90 KDX 200
'07 Vulcan 2000 Classic LT (totaled 4/25/15)
'82 Honda GL500 (sold)
'96 ZXi 1100 JetSki
'98 STX 1100 JetSki
nedrowjoe
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: 11:11 pm Oct 24 2016
Country: United States

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by nedrowjoe »

And I just bought a clymer after I snapped the top of the clutch cover off trying to disassemble the kips linkage. I sure am glad I have a 2nd cover in good shape. I will have the kips linkage for sale soon. It is in good working order, does 125 or 150 delivered sound reasonable for the complete kips system on an 86?
david
Member
Posts: 524
Joined: 08:30 pm Oct 10 2011
Country:
Location: Forney, TX

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by david »

It's only worth what someone will pay for it, and I don't know what the demand is for those years. There is a set listed right now on eBay for $180 w/free shipping from Interstate Cycle Salvage. I don't know how long it's been listed but no one is watching it.
'81 KDX 175
'90 KDX 200
'07 Vulcan 2000 Classic LT (totaled 4/25/15)
'82 Honda GL500 (sold)
'96 ZXi 1100 JetSki
'98 STX 1100 JetSki
User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 14047
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by KDXGarage »

Electrofusion does not have a lot of cross hatch like replated cylinders will show or later KX from 2003.

Feeler gauges are not the correct tool for measuring cylinder to piston gap. If you can, take it to someone with an inside bore gauge and micrometer for the piston.

Also, consider buying the OEM manual. They are dirt cheap.

You won't get much for the KIPS parts. Most people that buy the old air cooled ones just run them as is, with or without KIPS, other repairs, etc. Look on ebay for SOLD auction prices.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
To post pictures from a device: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=24128
nedrowjoe
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: 11:11 pm Oct 24 2016
Country: United States

Re: 2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to

Post by nedrowjoe »

The one plated cylinder will be fine, I took a better look, the plating is,in tact. The jug is marked "b" and so is my piston. It was a running bike with a stator magnet that let loose. I,have a new stator, and will be rebuilding the suspension, and doing a new piston myself. Thanks guys
thundermountain
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 06:36 pm Sep 20 2017
Country: United States

2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to do?

Post by thundermountain »

IF you didn't use the "C" cylinder would it be for sale ?
KDX Geoff
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
Posts: 156
Joined: 11:29 pm May 26 2013
Country:

2 jugs, 1 stock "b" , 1 sleeved "c" both subpar, what to do?

Post by KDX Geoff »

I've bought a few of those air cooled power valve 200's and the steel power valves and racks have been in good condition...I'm thinking the steel ones didn't strip off like the alloy ones do.
Post Reply