Which Head Mod?????

Questions and Answers about the best carb and Head mods available for the KDX.
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jc7622
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Which Head Mod?????

Post by jc7622 »

On the RB Designs website he has two head services listed:

$75 - Surface and Squish Band and cc Head
$45 - Mill Surface only

Which one is the one that everyone here has done? Also, there is also a page that describes how to measure the squish. He asks that you put some solder on the piston and rotate it the TDC and then send the squished solder in. Is for something different than what you have done?
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scheckaet
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Post by scheckaet »

Done the 45$, I like it. I wonder if the other one is if you want to run race gas or sumthin
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Post by jc7622 »

I searched and found where I had asked the exact same question a year ago. Damn, I am such a procrastinator. He answered and said the $45 one. I'm about to e-mail him and get the shipping amount so that I can send my head. I might as well since my engine will be apart for the next couple weeks getting re-plated.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Kind'a late now, as you got your head back already...but for future reference and future readers.....

Something isn't right. The job that 'everyone here has done' that I am aware of includes squish band reconfiguration. That is the point of having the KDX head worked on in the first place. The point is not just to make it 'flat' (mill surface only).

Besides that, do note that the $75 job includes the work done on the $45 job. As I read it anyway.

$75: Surface, squish, cc.
$45: Surface

Usually, the bulk of time it takes to get anything done in a machine shop includes part prep (you should send in clean 'stuff' in the first place, but that isn't always the case), figuring out what it is that needs doing, and setup on whatever equipment is required. Once all that is done, the actual DOING of the work, whatever it is, doesn't take that much time.

I had some grease seals machined to fit a double sealed bearing in the lower shock position. I had an arbor made to hold the seals, had to figure out HOW that arbor was to be made, had to determine the amount of material to be removed to fit in the final assembly.

The actual metal removal process once the above was figured out took a minute or two!

I didn't pay for a minute or two of the machinist's time, obviously.

I don't think you got 'the $45 one'. Maybe you did..but I doubt it. I AM sure that you DID get whatever you asked for.

None of this should be based on some $ number, but the work that was done. Maybe the $75 one USED to be the $45 one. I don't know that it did or not, and I'm not saying any price has changed ever. The answer you're after involves what work was done...not what the cost is...or was...or will be.

'What did you have for dinner?'

'The $20 one.'


Uh...no.

An answer might be, 'Ribeye, mashed taters, and 'speargas'. That it was $20 or $40 likely isn't the point.

If there is a menu that has two dinners on it, one for $20 and one for $40, I guess that's different....as long as it's the menu from Saturday, October 18, 2008 you're talking about.

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Post by jc7622 »

I e-mailed and asked which head mod was the one everyone on KDXRider talked about. He said it was the $45 one. In the letter I sent all I stated was that I wanted the head mod that everyone on KDXRider talked about and that I still wanted to be able to use premium pump gas. That and the cashiers check for $60 ($45 + $15 shipping) was the only direction from me about what I wanted. I have heard only positive things about his work so I felt pretty safe with letting him do his thing.

The invoice stated the following work was done: "200 'EXPERIMENTAL' KDX Head. Mill and recut squish band as per customer request. Includes shipping and handling." I'm not sure what you get for the $75 job. This $45 job was more than just milling the head.

The head is beautiful. Thge dome area has obviously been worked on. I have been showing everyone that comes over before I slap it back on and get it coated with carbon. I have gotten porting and head work done in the past and this is by far the cleanest, most finished looking work I've seen. I'm pretty happy. And from what everyone says I'm pretty anxious to give it a try.

To kind of answer your question, I got the $45 dollar one but I got more than just the head milled. I also got the squish re-cut. Maybe ha has a special place in his heart for KDX riders.
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Post by scheckaet »

before
Image
after
Image
carb
Image
Image
it's not mechanical engeneering greatness, it's called ART :supz:
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Post by jc7622 »

Yep, that's exactly what my head looks like.

I'm sure that CC will say that "looks like" for the untrained eye is no certainty that they had the same work done.

That reminds me of the movie Crocodile Dundee. The woman reporter saw Mick looking oddly at the TV in the motel room. She asked if he had ever seen a TV before. He said, "Oh sure, I've seen lots of TV's". She went over and turned it on. He looked at it for a second and said, "Yep, that's what I saw".
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Post by scheckaet »

:lol:
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Post by canyncarvr »

C'mon!! :roll: Be nice!!

One thing for sure, "looks like" for the untrained eye is no certainty that they had the same work done.

:blink:

It's pretty hard to measure angles and thousandths of an inch with the untrained eye. A 'before' pic being all lumpy and scruffy, the 'after' being all shiny and pretty doesn't make it easier.

Still..the squish on scheckaet's head don't look the same between the two pics.

No pretense on my part to know the 'math' in what RB-Designs does. I don't know..and don't have to..'cuz HE does.

My point was that 'surface' as a description for work done on RB's head modification left some things out.

Don't know how it fits in this case, but the term 'cc' in head-land generally means to modify a head in such a way as to contain a specific volume. Consider that starting with a given bore (chamber diameter), machining a particular squish angle and height followed by smoothing/polishing the dome (or vice versa..however it works) won't necessarily get you the same cc value from head to head.

Thus...heads are cc'd to ensure the end result is correct not only in the configuration of the cavity..but the volume. As a machinist you wouldn't want ten 220 or 200 heads (KDX) to leave your shop with a +/- 3cc volume. Not if you gave a damn about the work you did.

I guarandamtee that RB DOES give a good lot of that! Thus the 'art' comments.

In multiple cylinder applications, you want all the chambers to be the same, too. Well...considering you are taking crown height into account. Which you do when you cc a head........



I knew this would be true. Finally went and looked.....

Go to RB's site and check the KDX head info page.

After all, we're not talking about 'heads'...we're talking about KDX heads!

$45 includes squish cut/configuration AND surfacing. It says it... right there.

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Curious George

Post by Curious George »

Has he ever commented how much he plains the head ?
ten or twenty thousands maybe.

Moves the compression up to what ?
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Post by canyncarvr »

>|<>QBB<
Curious George wrote:Has he ever commented how much he plains the head ?
ten or twenty thousands maybe.

Moves the compression up to what ?
[tone]

Curious question, George.

No. He hasn't. I'M curious why you would ask the question? Call it a 'trade secret' if you like, but the 'design time' spent, the dyno time, the bike testing done to arrive at his final product would likely be made public domain knowlege because....why exactly?

I took a number of measurements of my KDX head before he reconfigured it..and after I got it back. In the interests of decency and respect for his work, I wouldn't tell you what those numbers were if you (or anyone else) asked.

You do realize that any 'plaining' of the head that gets done is not the primary issue, right?

[/tone]

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Post by Jeb »

I did a before and after too on the RM head. 'Had to send in some solder samples relating to the squish. Then did the solder test when I got it back and the changes were quite interesting.

The differences before and after were . . . uh . . . gee, I can't remember!!

:wink:

What I can say is the difference makes me say WOW and that's all that matters
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Curious George

Post by Curious George »

>|<>QBB<
canyncarvr wrote:>|<>QBB<
Curious George wrote:Has he ever commented how much he plains the head ?
ten or twenty thousands maybe.

Moves the compression up to what ?
[tone]

Curious question, George.

No. He hasn't. I'M curious why you would ask the question? Call it a 'trade secret' if you like, but the 'design time' spent, the dyno time, the bike testing done to arrive at his final product would likely be made public domain knowlege because....why exactly?

I took a number of measurements of my KDX head before he reconfigured it..and after I got it back. In the interests of decency and respect for his work, I wouldn't tell you what those numbers were if you (or anyone else) asked.

You do realize that any 'plaining' of the head that gets done is not the primary issue, right?

[/tone]
I've been around plenty long enough to understand what you're saying. And for this guy to make a profit or living is not a bad thing. With the proper squish chamber you can run a KX-125 which has 11:1 compression on premium pump gas.
I'll contact him myself.
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Post by canyncarvr »

The fact of the matter is, or a meaningful response would be, 'No. I don't.' I know it works. He reconfigured the heads on some Banshees I've been acquainted with, too. Same thing..they worked, too! He knows his stuff. Take the opportunity to let him get to know YOUR stuff, and you won't be disappointed.

Cheers!

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Post by fuzzy »

Pretty much all factory heads could use a little masaging. It's too expensive for them to lathe them all....Plus they have to be a little more tolerant of crap fuel for warranty purposes.
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Curious George

Post by Curious George »

>|<>QBB<
fuzzy wrote:Pretty much all factory heads could use a little masaging. It's too expensive for them to lathe them all....Plus they have to be a little more tolerant of crap fuel for warranty purposes.

You couldn't be more correct on the fuel comment. Even though gas has gone done in price, the fuel the manufacturers are feeding us is the worst its ever been !!!! I worked for a chemical company for five years and todays ethanol blend does nothing good for your motor. Less power and poor mileage with MAYBE slightly cleaner emissions out the tailpipe.
Some 2 stroke manufacturers that use an oil injection system have issued TSB's to their dealers recommending that customers should add an oz. of oil per gallon to combat the ethanol .
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: '..with MAYBE slightly cleaner emissions out the tailpipe.'

Which is exactly their agenda.

The same as having carbon dioxide regulated to be a hazardous gas that is going to kill us all with Global Obviating.

Consider the consequences of a by-product of life as we know it on the planet being regulated by The Government.

Completely btw...but I notice Stabil's 'new' product says it is particularly for use in alcohol attenuated fuels.


..well, I don't think they use the word 'attenuated'....... But, the don't say, 'Expressly formulated for gasolines that got $hit in it.' either.

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Post by Byte »

i live in Australia and have a kdx220 and want this mod done by rb in usa.

i want to buy a head in usa and have it sent to rb for the $75 head job :wink:

where is rb located in usa and what are your recommendations to acquire a second hand head?

recommended bike wreckers near rb?

what should be considered when buying secong hand heads?

part number for this head?

Byte
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: 'Where...'

His website: rb-designs.com

He's in northern Oregon.

Part numbers for OEM parts can be had from any site that has OEM microfiche: Ronayers.com Kawasaki.com Bikebandit.com

Re: 'Recommendations...'

Online auctions. Fredette.

There is a local salvage yard..one of the largest on the US West Coast. I'll check them later today.

Re: 'what should be considered...'

All the normal stuff...none of which you will know or be able to determine when buying something 'remotely'. No cracks...not warped..nothing busted (mounting stanchions).

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Post by Byte »

thank you
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