SSS again in HOT weather 200

[Bailey28]

Hey,

I got to ride at my buddy's sand track in the 95 degree heat, with my newly aquired RB mod!

Let me take you through the afternoon/evening and tell you about the carb mods.

First, my 200 is all stock except for a Pro Circuit Platinum II and a BR8EG plug. I run Yamalube 2r 32:1 with 93 octane pump fuel.

I started out riding with the carb sent to me as Ron prepared it, CEK-3 7/8 out a/s, 40 pilot, 152 main. The bike ran good, although I heard a few rich crackle pops in the exhaust on a long decel in gear. Bike was consistent, I could lug it or snap the throttle open and it would pull. Low end was smooth, the hit came early and the bike pulled into the top end great. Temps were still in the lower to mid 90's. Some spooge was visible on the silencer end in the form of a drip.



As the evening wore on, the temps started to cool to the mid 80's, humidity still high. I felt the bike was running a bit rich still, so I turned the a/s out a bit to 1 turn. Back on the track, the bike had the dreaded wick-bog when wicked in third from low speeds. I turned the screw back to 7/8ths and it went away.

Thinking of the SSS, I then turned the pilot out to 2 9/16 and started it up. The motor was very zingy, like a formula one car! Zing.. Zing!! Instant throttle response!! I took off on the track and noticed how little throttle I needed to get up to speed, or accelerate. The bike responded like a 125mx'er and was pulling really hard everywhere. Thought I had the SSS!! Just for the sake of it, I tried the wick -bog test. It still had the dreaded wick-bog in third from low speeds. Since it was running so good except for the bog, I left it alone. I usually don't ride around wicking it at walking speed, but I heard that this test would be the tell-tale for proper set up. Temps were cooling now, lower to mid-80's. I didn't screw in the a/s any more, I left it alone for now. Maybe if I screwed it in to 2 1/2 or 2 3/8 the bog would have went away. I also didn't try the CEK on -4 either.




On the way home after dark, I was riding down a dirt road in 4th gear, just under the powerband. While on a flat surface, I would slowly roll on the throttle, to about 1/2. The bike seemed to want to bog slightly, i.e. opening the throttle produced only a deeper tone, not really any more acceleration. I had to go to about 2/3 throttle in 4th to get the motor to "hit" . Temps in the lower 80's. May be the "wide ratio tranny"...


Overall, much better than the stock carb setup and whatever adjustments I made to it. I've been reading about how the carb set up from RB is magic, I am in the process of fine tuning to get the magic. I'm in the ballpark now, but I want to get to homeplate and hit one out of the park!!

Anyone "play" with the setup? I have yet to try:

CEK -4
DEK -3 and -4

I have a CCL laying around, maybe the L diameter would solve some of the richness at the 0-1/4 throttle settings, but with the #7 slide,hmmm....

I will try for the SSS again when I have more time. Any thoughts? BTW, Sea level track.

[bradf]

Make sure the float is correct, which might require 1-2 mm lower than stock setting as stock can be too high. Don't stop adjusting to find the SSS. I have had to go as much as 2 3/4 out for temps over 80. The needle definitely gets changed as well. I can't run a DEK-4 when it gets over 80. Not even a DEK-3. I go back to the CEK-3 or 4. At these temps even the main becomes too rich "if" your jetting is set up for average temps like 65.

[m0rie]

Work the clip setting with the CEK and DEK needles, try both in the 3 and 4 clip positions. Work the air screw in 1/16th turns to find the SSS (its really that sensitive!) but once you find it and get a feel for it you'll be able to pick it back out a lot easier.

[Bailey28]

Bradf,

My average riding temp here in Florida is about 75-80 degrees. Even the cool mornings that start out around 55 or so end up in the mid-70's by the end of the day. I will adjust the a/s as much as it takes throughout the day to keep it in the SSS.

I'm not sure if I understand not running the DEK in the summer,, I thought the DEK was a bit leaner in the first half of the throttle due to the later taper start. I agree that the DEK will be a bit richer in the second half of the throttle due to the skinnier tip at the end. Would a 150 main fix that ? Or how about a DEL/ CEL?

I will check the float height to make sure that is not causing the bog upon wicking it open. My bike never "Pee'd" while leaning it against a tree or anything. Most times, the hoses are even dry and have no residue on them at the ends.

The airbox lid is not going back on, I lost too much power with it on, and it made the bike run too rich as well.

Morie, I will play with the setup as you recommended, and try my CCL in there too, clip 1 or 2 as the taper starts really early on this one. I'm trying not to stray too far from what Ron set up, becasue fall will be here soon and the richer set up will work better then. Even without being fine tuned yet, the set up is worlds better than what it was like before!

The only area i am tuning for now is the bog in 3rd from slow speeds. I had it where it pulled good in 3rd in the sand with very little throttle, but would bog if I wicked it hard. Not a bog because it is a small motor, it was a fast "baahhh..... WAAAA" kind of bog. From experience without the carb mods, this wick bog (lean) gets worse with cooler weather. If it is doing it at 80-90 degree range, then it will be worse in the 60-70 degree range.

I am thinking:

CEK-4,
then Float +2mm, to raise the fuel level in the bowl

The only time I got rid of the bog before the carb mods with no airbox lid was when I used a BEL clip 3 42 pilot 152 main a/s 1 out. 80 degrees. But I had slight 4 stroking then and still spooge. CCL on 1 or 2 worked ok, but the B ripped!

[m0rie]

Bailey - By chance have you tried running with the airbox lid on and the snorkle off? There have been a some people that couldn't get the jetting exactly right on the low end with the lid off.

Other things to keep in mind:

Ignore the spooge! Proper jetting and lack of spooge don't necessarily go together. The spooge has a lot more to do with the oil and the condition of the packing in the silencer than anything else.

How are you oiling your filter? Too thick on the oil is going to make an otherwise good setup run pretty rich.

What are you running the gap on the BR8EG at? I've run the B8EG's in my 89 on the high side of the spec and it seems to like that.

Reeds? Still running the stockers?

Keep at it, we'll get you dialed in and then your going to love your bike even more than you already do.

[bradf]

Clarification: I had switched from a DEK-4 to a CEK-4 to help eliminate a quick wick throttle lean bog during cooler temps, but, at the same time running a CEK-4 at constant 1/8 to 1/4 throttle in the tight woods was just too rich when the temps rose. The DEK or CEK-3 worked way better from 1/8 to 1/2 in the heat than either needle on clip #4. But overall in the steady woods 1/8 to 1/2 throttle I found the CEK-3 to be best as the plug would look much cleaner and the SSS would be more crisp.

[Bailey28]

morie,

I have the airbox lid in the attic, I'll crawl up there and get it. I ran it with the snorkel out when I first got the bike, with the 1174 needle. I went through plugs like crazy, and even changed to a BR7ES to compensate.

My silencer is stock as of current, so no packing

I am the 'original' owner from new and the bike has maybe 25 hours on it, max. Tranny seals all good, not using or leaking oil anywhere, I am not that hard on my machines ie no water crossings, deep mud, crashing, etc.

I have a set of Boyesen 607's I changed them in and out like my underwear and found that they seemed less crisp than the stockers!! Not sure why, reed block in right side up,etc.

Air filter is a different story, I still have the stock filter, and oil it with pour -type Bel-Ray. I won a twin air the other day and will try that before I make any changes. I try not to over oil the things, and I use grease around the edge. I have NOT yet sealed the airbox boot to box ring joint yet. I may do the silicone seal when I replace the stock filter. Funny you mention the oil, inside of the lower airbox boot right before the carb, I usually find a puddle of oil. It doesn't look or smell like filter oil, it feels and smells like motor oil! I checked the hose going from the tranny vent to the airbox and it is dry with no residue. I use ATF anyway, and this doesn't look like that, or 2 cycle 2R either. Strange, it may be the grease breaking down and running into the boot.

Bradf, Thanks again, I will try the CEK-4, it seems that you had good luck with eliminating the wick bog, as the taper of the CE starts sooner in -4 clip than in -3. Temps in Georgia seem very close to temps here in North Florida. Have you tried the CEL needle, the L being slightly larger in diameter at the 0-1/4 throttle range? I know the #7 slide "should " have the L diamter, but maybe for us down here in the "heat belt" we need one diameter leaner on the bottom?

[Bailey28]

BTW, I just mapped it, and you, BradF, are 146 miles from my house in GainesvilleFL.

This fall, maybe all of us could get together for a trail ride? Cicone is around here too I last heard.

[bradf]

I have a CEL, ran it a few times here and I found that I just can't handle the 85-95 degree temps with high humidity so I don't ride in it anymore. I have to go out at 7 AM and be done by 9. With the CEL the lean bog during quick wicks was severe.

[Bailey28]

Just installed a brand new Twin air, oiled with BelRay the other day. Let the filter dry for a day or so, then raised the float level +2mm to make the level in the bowl higher. This seemed to help a ton, and the bog is not really noticeable now. I will move the needle to clip 4 in the future when it gets cooler, or try a CCK on clip 2 or 3 in the future. Bike rips all over now as well!! Still no airbox lid. Thanks for the help, I'll keep this updated when I totally eliminate the bog.

Alot of you guys seem to have the 220's; maybe the 200 just can't handle the wick-bog test at 2nd 3rd gear lugging then jumping on the throttle.. . A slight blip is all I get now, real weak bog. I'm headed in the right direction, seems that it wants to be richer a bit sooner than the CEK-3, but not as rich say as a BEK-3.

[Indawoods]

WHAT????

May I remind you.... http://kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=411

[bradf]

I haven't heard from Jay (Ciccone) in a while but once it gets cooler I'm in!